Passenger Trains > Biden and American Passenger Service?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-promised-railroad-revolution-could-134400412.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/20 19:20 by wabash2800.

Finally something promising in the news to read. After the funding starts rolling in, the top priority should be making them safer to ride. 

Well, Amtrak needs Fresh New Order of Superliners Cars, say 500 New Cars?? and 50 more Viewliners 2 sleeping cars too replace the viewliners1 build in the early 90s??? Its cheaper too build the 2 instead of making the 1 into 2. They would brand new instead of 25 year old cars.

Who would build them, any double deckers pass the the current  crash standards, rebuild what we have,  I would rather see trains go daily for now than any new cars, after we have the covid under control, traveling by train is riskier than air in my view now.

Molino Wrote:
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> Finally something promising in the news to read.
> After the funding starts rolling in, the top
> priority should be making them safer to ride. 

With the media being what it is, there will be absolutely nothing but good news to report during the next 3-4 years. Even if the news is all bad.

Looking forward to the over budget, 3 year late, reduced in scope New Jersey High Speed Rail Improvement project being completed - imagine 186 mph trains going 160 mph over some 15 miles of track! This assuming the reduced scope of the project does not negate the promise.

No doubt, the "success" of this half a billion dollar project will be positively reported upon. Or, perhaps instead overlooked in perpetuity.

/Mitch

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/20 20:19 by Mgoldman.

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> With the media being what it is, there will be
> absolutely nothing but good news to report during
> the next 3-4 years. Even if the news is all bad.
>
This is not a reality-based statement.

>
> /Mitch
>
> Posted from Android

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who would build them, any double deckers pass the
> the current  crash standards, rebuild what we
> have,  I would rather see trains go daily for now
> than any new cars, after we have the covid under
> control, traveling by train is riskier than air in
> my view now.

We've already had a thread discussing people who have actually travelled on the Western LD trains during the pandemic. My opinion is that the risk is manageable, even by train, so let's hope that's the reality. Otherwise, people can crawl in to their caves permanently due to a mere perception of fear, in which case they deserve the fate.

Superliner I, built 1975-1981 were built by Pullman.

Superliner II, built 1991-1996 were built by Bombardier.*

* Graham Clayor, CEO of Amtrak, 1982-1993. Did he push for the Superliner II order before he retired? You tell me.

I'm pretty sure Biden will pay attention to the NEC, because that's all he rode. So that shouldn't be anyone's concern. I'll dismiss any pipe dream speculations on LD train improvements, until current Amtrak regime demonstrates their commitment to improving the national network. Even in this article, NEC as "Amtrak's only profitable sector" narrative is pushed, so it's not a good start.

Tom Carper, one of Amtrak's board members is like Biden, a Senator from Delaware. Food for thought.

Beware  of  Mitch.

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mgoldman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > With the media being what it is, there will be
> > absolutely nothing but good news to report
> during
> > the next 3-4 years. Even if the news is all
> bad.
> >
> This is not a reality-based statement.
>
> >
> > /Mitch
> >
> > Posted from Android

How could you possibly say that this is not a reality based statement after what we have seen for the past decade??

The media is not media. They are a propaganda outlet. And no, I am not exaggerating. There is no disputing this by any rational person.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mgoldman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > With the media being what it is, there will
> be
> > > absolutely nothing but good news to report
> > during
> > > the next 3-4 years. Even if the news is all
> > bad.
> > >
> > This is not a reality-based statement.
> >
> > >
> > > /Mitch
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
>
> How could you possibly say that this is not a
> reality based statement after what we have seen
> for the past decade??
>
> The media is not media. They are a propaganda
> outlet. And no, I am not exaggerating. There is
> no disputing this by any rational person.

The unwillingess of many folks to engage in critical thinking is a serious problem.  Consuming news from multiple competing sources, etc.

This isn't a problem limited to any particular persuasion

 

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finally something promising in the news to read.
> After the funding starts rolling in, the top
> priority should be making them safer to ride.

Temporary political euphoria (something promising in the news) doesn't lead to real changes or real progress. After 12 years, we only got Stonhenge of Fresno out here in California.

Don't think funding is the primary factor in creating a safer work environment. Seems Anderson did improve safety within Amtrak somewhat, if he deserves credit for anything, and that didn't require extra funding (he took "zero" salary, remember?).

So after adjusting your narrative, I can agree with your statement.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mgoldman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > With the media being what it is, there will
> be
> > > absolutely nothing but good news to report
> > during
> > > the next 3-4 years. Even if the news is all
> > bad.
> > >
> > This is not a reality-based statement.
> >
> > >
> > > /Mitch
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
>
> How could you possibly say that this is not a
> reality based statement after what we have seen
> for the past decade??

You talk about what "we've" seen.  Neither you, nor anyone else on Trainorders knows all of the media I and others have consumed over the past decade.
>
> The media is not media. They are a propaganda
> outlet. And no, I am not exaggerating. There is
> no disputing this by any rational person.

If some of the media produce articles about the Trump administration proposes to eliminate funding for all long-distance trains and that is actually what what is contained in Trump's budget, then that is reporting, not propaganda.

If some of the media reports that there was a Biden campaign train running in September from Cleveland to Western Pennsylvania, and some of us on Trainorders actually see the train, that is reporting, not propaganda.

Using the term "media," as if it is one entity, is ignorant.  The PBS News Hour is nothing like ABC, CBS, BBC or Fox.  The New York Times and Pittsburgh Tribune-Review are not like Breitbart or Newsmax.  Epoch Times has nothing in common with Scientific American.  Streetsblog's view of transportation issues is very different than discussion of transportation issues in Car and Driver.  The Yahoo article provides much less depth than I would see in other sources.  All of the examples listed here are "media."

One Friday evening, I represented my employer at the taping of a show of a local NBC station that partnered with Fox News.  Not only did the program not use anything I said, but it interviewed others to make my organization look bad which reeked of propaganda.  A few years later, I was interviewed for NPR's Market Place which covered a project on which I worked.  It was not propaganda.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/20 08:02 by RuleG.

That last post reeked of logic.  What is it doing here?

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who would build them, any double deckers pass the
> the current  crash standards, rebuild what we
> have,  I would rather see trains go daily for now
> than any new cars, after we have the covid under
> control, traveling by train is riskier than air in
> my view now.

There are builders of double deck passenger cars around that will meet the crash standards. They just don't meet the federal money requirement "Must be built in the USA."

Biden needs to clean-out Amtrak's mismanagement and clean-out the Amtrak Board of Clowns (directors).  Start over fresh real rail passenger management, who believe in passenger service for the whole country, not just the "profitabull" NEC.    

I read all media with a very wary eye.  They are usually ignorant mouthpieces (including FOX, NPR, PMSNBC, etc.).  And just as we do on this board, we sift their "news" carefully.  That is called education and discernment.  We all well know that the media does not have any idea that a rail system exists and what it does.  

I do have higher expectations of Railway Age, Trains Magazine, etc.  

C'mon man!  Just because "all" of the media does not have a bias, doesn't mean
most of the media does not have a bias.  And no one is talking about planets nor
cars in this thread.  There's no denying the majority of the media that the general
public views is skewed left.  Not necessarily "fake", but most of the popular outlets
will report their views on a glass of water being either half full or half empty accord-
ing to their desired narrative.  I'll add It is not "fake" news to not report something,
or is it?

I expect the next 3-4 years will see a very rosy, accepting and supportive tone
coming from the media... err, the *majority* of the popular media.  The exact opposite
of the last 4 years despite the fact that some good things actually happened.  This
is not an endorsement for a particular President - simply an indictment of "the media".

My thoughts were in response to Molino's optimism on the odds of seeing positive
reporting from the mainstearm media after such a long absence.

In regards to the topic - I will concur - the aspect of a friendlier and more generous
administration in regards to public rail transportation should (could) be a positive
aspect.  Let's hope the money is well spent - maybe finish those high speed mid-
west rail projects started a decade ago?

/Mitch

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's hope the money is well spent -
> maybe finish those high speed mid-
> west rail projects started a decade ago?

Lol - and sigh, I guess I can be as bad as the
mainstream media, picking and chosing my
stories.  I'll note Biden did in fact help Amtrak
aquire a $2.45 billion dollar loan which enabled
Amtrak to get the new Acela replacements.  But
then again, I am not the popular media... nor am
I considered to be a "news" outlet.  I was only
opining on context I thought might have been
overlooked in regards to Molino's statement.

/Mitch

I regularly read what the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation have to say about rail, airline, and highway subsidies.  Not because I want my beliefs reaffirmed, but they make good arguments once in a while that need to be knocked down.

Here's a Cato article taking (Governor) Mike Pence to task for sticking the Indiana taxpayers with the increasing expenses of the Indiana Hoosier train. Normally seen as a fiscal conservative, this was an unusual deviation. Likely born of political expediency.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/mike-pence-ran-rails-bailing-out-amtrak-line

 

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon man!  Just because "all" of the media does
> not have a bias, doesn't mean
> most of the media does not have a bias. 

I said that it is false to discuss as the media as a monolith.  I did not say anything about bias.

And no
> one is talking about planets nor
> cars in this thread. 

I wasn't talking about planets, either.  Where did you come up with that?

As for cars, see the following anti-passenger rail editorial written by a Car & Driver contributing editor:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a26962411/trains-suck-huffman-column-opinion/

There's no denying the
> majority of the media that the general
> public views is skewed left. 

Um, yes, actually many, including myself and scax330 can and will state that is not the case.

Not necessarily
> "fake", but most of the popular outlets
> will report their views on a glass of water being
> either half full or half empty accord-
> ing to their desired narrative.  I'll add It is
> not "fake" news to not report something,
> or is it?
>
> I expect the next 3-4 years will see a very rosy,
> accepting and supportive tone
> coming from the media... err, the *majority* of
> the popular media.  The exact opposite
> of the last 4 years despite the fact that some
> good things actually happened. 

Go ahead, state in this thread some of the good things for passenger rail which actually happened under this administration which you feel has been ignored by the media.

I will even help you out.  The current administration approved a grant for the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District to construct an extension of the South Shore Line.  How did I learn about that?  By reading an article in the Times of Northwest Indiana which is part of the press that Trump calls the "enemy of the people"

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/437610-trump-calls-press-the-enemy-of-the-people

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/20 15:32 by RuleG.

Ironically, I admit, I am an advocate of improved rail passenger service.
Just often playing Devil's advocate, and responding to the often too
rosy picture propagated by a media that often picks and choses the
context of its reporting.

America has much to benefit by improved, albeit, highly subsidized,
passenger rail service.   And yes, I mean that.  The costs of several
money draining projects likely are justifyable, even more so when
the unseen benefits are calculated - for instance, I find it too expensive
and too inconvenient to really ever take the train - but I no doubt benefit
from reduced traffic and greater employment, and perhaps less smog
which results in providing such services.

Does not mean I support every project presented by some member of
Congress.

./Mitch