Passenger Trains > NOW WHAT with the Veterans Unit AMTK 42?

A report says that the often-troubled Amtrak P42 Veterans unit "Joseph P Boardman" is back at the Beech Grove Shops again after another failure.

HeritageUnits.com last reported it on the Cardinal, eastbound on November 14 with no further sightings. 

The consist list of 50(14) included equipment to be set out at Indianapolis for Beech Grove: the 42 and 189, Superliners 34967, 38031, 34047, 34018, 34103 and Viewliner Baggage Car 51005.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/20 17:09 by GenePoon.

With a surplus of locomotives currently why have a problem child out running around? Yeah, makes zero sense. You should be applauding management Mr. Poon.

Posted from iPhone

The years of the P42s are winding down for sure. It sucks to hear about the Vets Unit 42 having issues. On a more positive note, I haven't heard anything about the 42's brother the 642 crapping out lately.

As usual, Gene takes the arrows from a hater when he (Gene) did not offer any commentary or opinion in his statement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/20 22:23 by RioGrandeRod.

Oh brother.


RioGrandeRod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As usual, Gene takes the arrows from a hater when
> he (Gene) did not offer any commentary or opinion
> in his statement.

Well i hope beech grove gets to overhaul a lot of stuff that isn't running now, and perhaps run more loco's per train now?

Locomotive 42 had problems BEFORE it was painted into the Veterans scheme. It never recieved the repairs needed to make it reliable and it sounds like it still needs more than just a little TLC.

Amtrak = Penn Central (paint it - don't fix it)

I remember in the early days of Conrail when everything got spray-paint patched and stencilled "CR"...what "CR" stood for

In my book it was always Crash Repainting and Cursory Repairs.    

The average supportable lifespan of a computer compared to the average lifespan of a locomotive is an object lesson when you can't keep a P42 on the road and you can still keep a GP7 running after rewiring, power assembly swaps, traction motor replacement, etc.   But thost P42 trucks, along with some of the other oddball features of units in the era of hi-tech and european technology transplants, starts to look fairly sad as they meet their 'expected life'.   As an IT guy, I came across a Motorola flip-phone in the original box stored away, and checked it on Ebay.   Last sale $2.00.   Old AT&T brick rotary phones are $25-50.   

You do have to admire steam for assuming that virtually everything except some major castings was intended to be replaced by in-house labor.   Yes, that in-house labor force drove it to extinction, but the supportable lifespan of steam worked under completely different expectations in design and repair.

I have an old friend that's a CMO of a regional railroad that swears that if you can't jam a screwdriver in a relay to hold it shut, he doesn't want the locomotive.   I always laughed at him until we tried to figure out what was wrong with a high-tech loco rebuild that was burning up digital cards off the wheel slip indicator system and refused to load.    $8000 worth of cards and a year later, turned out to be a $2.00 part on the axle cable.

randgust Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------> I have an old friend that's a CMO of a regional
> railroad that swears that if you can't jam a
> screwdriver in a relay to hold it shut, he doesn't
> want the locomotive.   I always laughed at him
> until we tried to figure out what was wrong with a
> high-tech loco rebuild that was burning up digital
> cards off the wheel slip indicator system and
> refused to load.    $8000 worth of cards and a
> year later, turned out to be a $2.00 part on the
> axle cable.

Your clear and cogent remarks said it so well and your friend running the shortline is spot on, too.
One more for you, the old axiom: “Steam locomotives take 5 mins to find the problem, and 5 hours to fix; Diesels 5 hours to find it, then 5 mins to fix!”

randgust Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have an old friend that's a CMO of a regional
> railroad that swears that if you can't jam a
> screwdriver in a relay to hold it shut, he doesn't
> want the locomotive.   I always laughed at him
> until we tried to figure out what was wrong with a
> high-tech loco rebuild that was burning up digital
> cards off the wheel slip indicator system and
> refused to load.    $8000 worth of cards and a
> year later, turned out to be a $2.00 part on the
> axle cable.


I would certainly have questions about the training program and/or competency of the mechanics in this situation if I was CMO...

          Some short lines are trying to hire magician mechanics who can fix anything in 5 minutes for $15/hour. Therefore you get what you do not pay for.

DevalDragon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> randgust Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I have an old friend that's a CMO of a regional
> > railroad that swears that if you can't jam a
> > screwdriver in a relay to hold it shut, he
> doesn't
> > want the locomotive.   I always laughed at
> him
> > until we tried to figure out what was wrong with
> a
> > high-tech loco rebuild that was burning up
> digital
> > cards off the wheel slip indicator system and
> > refused to load.    $8000 worth of cards and
> a
> > year later, turned out to be a $2.00 part on
> the
> > axle cable.
>
>
> I would certainly have questions about the
> training program and/or competency of the
> mechanics in this situation if I was CMO...

Is there a training program or did they run off all the senior mechanics who did all the training and now they have the "blind leading the blind".

Amtrak has had a bad track record when it comes to proper maintenance, go figure why they ran the F40s into the ground!

Nothing like a flag stick jammed between the low water button and hood door to keep it running also. 

IC_2024 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> randgust Wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------> I
> have an old friend that's a CMO of a regional
> > railroad that swears that if you can't jam a
> > screwdriver in a relay to hold it shut, he
> doesn't
> > want the locomotive.   I always laughed at
> him
> > until we tried to figure out what was wrong with
> a
> > high-tech loco rebuild that was burning up
> digital
> > cards off the wheel slip indicator system and
> > refused to load.    $8000 worth of cards and
> a
> > year later, turned out to be a $2.00 part on
> the
> > axle cable.
>
> Your clear and cogent remarks said it so well and
> your friend running the shortline is spot on, too.
>
> One more for you, the old axiom: “Steam
> locomotives take 5 mins to find the problem, and 5
> hours to fix; Diesels 5 hours to find it, then 5
> mins to fix!”

Author: 2904"You should be applauding management Mr. Poon."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll bet you thought that declarative was actually helpful to the conversation, huh?

Since Gene can critique the NRPC for aboslutely every decision that is made I thought he should be made aware of the benefits to customer service from ridding the fleet of a bad actor.  A good decision during a time of surplus motive power.

When the original cards flamed out and bad ordered the unit, what we hit in this situation was the locomotive 'out of warranty' and no longer supported, the computer control system was no longer supported, and the entire technical team that had designed it had retired and left the manufacturer.   Found one of them in another country (my task), two full sets of control cards were hand-fabricated off of circuit boards literally in his basement.  Procurement from an individual now 'offshore' was an issue as well.

Second set installed and tested, worked, and first time wheels actually slipped, poof went 4K of custom-built cards and unit goes to forced idle.     Well, something is going on.   Mechanic started resistance testing every cable and finally found a kinked short at the one indicator sensor at the wheelset.   Put in third set of cards and ordered another spare set.... and it's worked fine ever since.   But the long-term supportability of a locomotive with such an oddball, one-of-a-kind control system is the point here.   In the effort to make a state of the art automatic wheel slip control system, you'd invented a system that was capable of crippling a locomotive indefinitely and the 'next generation' than inherits this won't have the luxury of finding the wizard in the basement that designed the thing to begin with.   One full set of spare cards and you hope they don't get tossed by an overzealous purchasing manager with a JIT mentality.

When you look at the current technology of limited wheel slip adhesion, ground radar sensing systems, PTC antennas, and virtually every 'improvement' on current power, you can see that 50 years from now, the survivability of a locomotive is in question, let alone the future preservationists that try to keep one running for a museum.   May still be riding on a truck casting designed in 2000, but it will be under tow to a dead line.

 

Well put!

I grew up understanding that we didn't put a fusee in the door to keep the crank case over pressure from tripping. Everything else was on the table, including a special set of alligator clips for the F40's.. Open the dash 2 cabinet and bypass the HEP protection to keep it running without trainline complete... Write up the defect and "skin her back"....

The interurban and traction companies faced a similar problem of unique car designs, and developed the President's Conference Committee car.  It wasn't perfect for every company, but it was a standard design that worked well for 75 (?) years.

The Air Force, Navy, and Marines have had similar issues with attack aircraft for 75 years.  Everybody wants "their" unique features