Passenger Trains > Combined commissary services

Did most union terminals in cities (ranging from Chicago and St. Louis size to Dallas and Houston size) have a single
commissary serving all railroads?  

PVSfan Wrote:
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> Did most union terminals in cities (ranging from
> Chicago and St. Louis size to Dallas and Houston
> size) have a single
> commissary serving all railroads?  

Are you asking about now or back when the railroads were in the passenger business?

Before Amtrak, yes.
Surely some place like St. Louis Union did not have separate commissaries, one for each railroad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/20 18:16 by PVSfan.

If those commissaries are located in the railroad coach yard, then it would be logical to assume (that word again!) each RR had their own.  I doubt many, if any, trains were serviced at the station platform, though the very short turnaround times for the Twin Cities Zephyrs would argue otherwise.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

In 1976 I worked for a couple of months in the St Louis Amtrak Commissary.  Amtrak leased space in a condemned GM&O multi story brick building to the west of the diesel tracks, within a 1000 ft or less of the St Louis station tracks.  We could load the commissary truck and drive to train side in 2 or 3 minutes.  The Amtrak Manager in the Commissary was Mr. Tony Cermak, a man who began his railroad career as a cook on the GM&O. 

I had been bumped by a more senior clerk out of the St Louis Ticket Office and bumped a spot in the commissary.  I later took a clerk position in Omaha, NE.

We filled orders for both the eastbound and westbound National Limited trains. Typically for items the diner had run short of.  We stocked all of the St Louis to Chicago trains and worked to provide items on the Inter-American trains, again, for items unavailable at the Chicago commissary for southbound trains or when supplies were short heading to Chicago from Texas on northbound trains.  We also stocked and supplied regular ice and dry ice when requested.

At that time, there was still an Amtrak crew base in St. Louis for OBS.  It closed the summer of 1976 and the limited number of OBS employees moved on to other crew bases. 

Good times.
  


i PVSfan Wrote:
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> Did most union terminals in cities (ranging from
> Chicago and St. Louis size to Dallas and Houston
> size) have a single
> commissary serving all railroads?  

Railroad commissaries were not located at the various Union Stations.  They were located at the coach yards of the individual railroads that used the stations.  Dining cars were stocked in the yard prior to the trains being moved to the stations for boarding.  These coach yards were frequently located some distance from the Union Stations. 

This is a topic that I think would get a better response on the History board, but from my knowledge at Houston Union Station, the Houston Belt & Terminal Railroad provided "light" commissary provisions to the railroads on a contractual, case-by-case basis.  The four roads that owned the HB&T received coach cleaning & turn around maintenance by HB&T staff.  Engines went to the HB&T round house and the cars were parked at the station during layovers for coach cleaners, carmen & electricians to inspect-repair.  At one point in time the Santa Fe "probably" had commissary agreements with the Fred Harvey lunch counter that was housed in Union Station until the 1930s.  From that point I think, things dwindled down with only HB&T staff providing ice, milk, presto logs and possibly other spot purchase items.  On the Santa Fe, the last full dining car that ran out of Houston was the Texas Chief and it was provisioned for the round trip out of Chicago.  The California Special #75 & #76 was "probably" provisioned out of Clovis, NM but the staff may have worked out of a Houston crew base.  As I recall, Fred Harvey had a small news stand at Clovis up to about 1967.  There was "probably" a dining car  purchaser on staff at Clovis until AT&SF took over dining cars fully.  All this information should be fully verified, but I think I am correct with my facts.

Fact: Dining car Stewards could purchase extra items if they needed along the line.  When I worked for Amtrak, it was not unusual for the Stewards to ask station staff to buy them extra items from a grocery store.  I actually did buy things for them after my shift when the plea seemed urgent and real. I just could not stand the thought of travelers getting poor dining service because of unexpected spoilage or an unexpected surge of travelers.  I got a tip and a good feeling too.


Topfuel Wrote:
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> Railroad commissaries were not located at the
> various Union Stations.  They were located at the
> coach yards of the individual railroads that used
> the stations.  Dining cars were stocked in the
> yard prior to the trains being moved to the
> stations for boarding.  These coach yards were
> frequently located some distance from the Union
> Stations. 

Hou74-76 Wrote:
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> Fact: Dining car Stewards could purchase extra
> items if they needed along the line.

When I worked Havre-Whitefish (BN - Montana) No 8 (Empire Builder) would periodically call on the radio after leaving Shelby to ask me to relay a restock order to the station agent in Havre. At the time, we didn't have low power base stations along the line. I had a single radio base station in the Sweetgrass Mountains to cover Havre - Cut Bank (and most of the rest of central Montana). I always enjoyed reading back the liquor order when they had one, knowing that only one side of the conversation could be heard all over the state: That's (whiskey, vodka, wine, beer, etc.), roger, I'll give it to 'em.

TAW

Was aboard Train #3 even as late as 2018 and as we were having breakfast - coming in to La Junta - the Steward opened a new milk container and quickly noticed it was sour. Presumably, it had gone beyond the expiration date. She called ahead to the La Junta train station and was able to get the ticket agent or someone to get milk at the local food store there near the station. Good timing, and nice that they were able to accommodate. 

In 2005 immediately upon boarding my sleeper car at Seattle's King Street Station (to head East on the Empire Builder) - with family in tow - I quickly noticed that the A/C was working on one end of the car, but definitely not the bedroom side of the car on the upper deck. We had rooms D and E. It was summer time and we were about to go across the prairies in Montana/Dakotas with 90 degree heat the following day. I told the car attendant that the A/C wasn't working before we left Seattle. It was clearly noted that the car had even left Chicago on the most recent trip with A/C issues and there was nothing that the Seattle service crew could do when it had arrived earlier in the day (same day turn). Other passengers began to realize the A/C was "out" and they too lodged complaints with the attendant. I suggested that they call ahead to Everett and have the ticket agent or someone go to the local big box store in Everett and purchase about 8 small oscillating fans that could be setup in the rooms and hallway. It was confirmed before we left King Street Station in Seattle that the fans would be loaded in Everett, which they were. They spent nearly $200 on the fans! Wasn't the greatest situation, but it helped. The last day from Twin Cities to Chicago was rough, as things had heated up since starting out. We were the first Western Long Haul into Chicago that summer Saturday and the cleaning crew met us on the platform. They were getting ready to turn the train to become the eastbound #30, Capitol Limited. Usually the Southwest Chief did the honors of the run-through with the Capitol Limited, but it was not going to make the connection this day, so our train set had to do the honors (minus the last coach and sleeper, which were taken off). Attendant had to really press upon the fact that the car was bad-ordered and needed to go to the yard for fixing. Ironically, they quickly switched the car out and later that same day, we re-boarded it for our continuation (final leg) to the East Coast. Only for that trip we did have A/C, same room letters, but a Superliner I sleeper with the old orange interior. But the HVAC system worked and they were also able to open the doors between the rooms - something the Seattle crew couldn't figure out how to do. 

So less than $5 for a carton of milk for one enroute train and over $200 to buy fans for another!

In 2014, the magnificent Kansas City Union Station, was the focus of it's 100th anniversary.  Displays were created to tell, briefly, many aspects of the operations at the station.

One of the displays described the Fred Harvey Commissary in the sub level of the great station.  The Fred Harvey Commissary included a "butcher shop, bakery, prep area for polishing silver, laundering and ironing uniforms and food storage. Including on a lower level storage for meat, fish dairy and a large humidor that held 3 million cigars and 5 million cigarettes."

The Fred Harvey Company was headquartered at Kansas City Union Station when it opened in 1914.  It may be that the Kansas City Fred Harvey Commissary helped to supplement stock at Harvey House Dining Rooms along the Santa Fe, but also helped to support the Fred Harvey Commissary's for Santa Fe dining cars as well. 

"When World War II came, the Fred Harvey system faced the new challenge of feeding service men on their way to the Pacific theatre. The food output of the company doubled in the war years. Of the thirty million meals now served annually, eighth million were consumed by military personnel (in 1944.) From the book "Meals by Fred Harvey" by James D Henderson

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Fred Harvey Company also maintained its own beef ranches and several dairy farms.

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In St. Louis I know the Mopac had their own commissary; GM&O already noted;  I would imagine Wabash, NYC, PRR, etc. each had small comissaries to top-off dining cars. 

As a steward I bought groceries in all manner of situations, and station agents were very helpful.  Usually Chicago stocked the trains quite well.  On the Broadway Ltd., we used Sunnyside Yard to top-off the dining car with normally a small order.  On the western trains we prepared an order going into LAX, OAK or SEA.  Each of those cities had a full comissary.  Rarely we would ask a paired train such as 40-41 for supplies to be handed off the one train, and placed on the other train.  

Now with no chefs, and no stewards, all that knowledge is gone.  And dining cars do not exist, except as warming stations.  Sorry situation.  

This is somewhat interesting though - so "back in the day," (as in VERY pre 1970) the Broadway Limited would be stocked out of Chicago?

Same for say the NYC's 20th Century Limited?

Would you say more "light provisioning" was done at Sunnyside? And perhaps some specialty items would be added - seafood from the Northeast etc.

Would this apply for most long distance trains per say that operated into NYC - that the railroads would prefer to stock the train outside of NYC ("the other originating terminal so to speak!).

In terms of NYC and Sunnyside Yard, this makes complete sense, but not sure how practical this really was.

Years ago, I was recruited to be an executive for a food distribution company based out of NYC and Long Island City. Shortest job I ever had - I left after six months but did give them a two page list of recommendations (if they ever wanted to achieve profitability); the first and most important recommendation was to re-locate ALL operations and logistics OUT of the NYC metro area. But they soldiered on embracing very little change and  went bankrupt less than a year later. 

Now this is a long time ago, probably about 1965 or 66.  I was the conductor on the Golden State, the RI-SP train from Chicago to Los Angeles.  When I boarded the train at Yuma, the train was already 4 hours late.  The brakeman and I went to the diner to have coffee, and the steward complained of being short of supplies to feed the passengers lunch before we would arrive in LA about 100pm.  Then things turned worse - we stopped at Niland, and the fireman came trotting back to tell us the a freight train was diabled ahead of us and we would be delayed probably another two hours!  I went back to the diner while we sat at Niland. The steward asked if there were any grocery stores there.  Well not really, I mused, but lets walk the block over to the little grocery and see what they have.  $280.00 later, the brakeman, the steward, a waiter, and a volunteer passenger had all the groceries we could carry back to the train.  The grocery store closed for the day as they were out of almost everything.  That was a most pleasant meal a few hours later as we climbed Beaumont pass.  This was in the era when SP had instructions that meals served after the scheduled arrival time were "on the house".

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

In Denver UP had one, RG  had one, and I assume the Texas Zephyr got supplies in Denver at the Burlington shop, where Denver diesel is today.  Pullman had  facilities commissary's as they were listed as I believe in some cities, is this correct?