Passenger Trains > CAHSR completion

How much has been built already (I had planned to drive through the valley last spring, to check the progress. But then the coronavirus hit..)

It will probably get finished now that Biden won, God knows how much more money they will waste though.

Posted from Android

goduckies Wrote:
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> It will probably get finished now that Biden won,
> God knows how much more money they will waste
> though.
>
> Posted from Android

But what does finished mean. Finished finished or the the stub segment that was paired down.?

Or could be finished in another sense?

Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/21 16:24 by robj.

Update on Brown's Folly - from the local propganda bureau, KTVU

​California's high-speed rail delays are ‘beyond comprehension'

California would be better buying travelers a Southwest ticket, will end up being cheaper in the long term.  

We need to put an end to this project.  I do not know where they are goint to get the money to complete it, let alone the electorns to power it. We had rolling black out this summer, and this will contine to until some new power plants get built and people learn how to cut trees. The wind does not blow enough and the sun does not shine enough to satisfy our power needs.  Of all of the times that i have drive over the Altamont Pass, it seems that fewer than 20% of the wind turbines are spinning.  In a couple of years, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people here in the bay area. When on a hot summer days when our AC's, computers and Netflix are turned off so that CalTrain can get a few people home. I am a former CalTrain commuter.

Next, what little of our gas taxes that are spent to repair the pot hole strewn roads here in the bay area, will be obscounded with to pay for Brown's Folly

And according to the no mask for me at the French Laundry, covid czar, we have over a 50 Billion dollar budget deficit. And that is not getting any better with corporate headquarters leaving.  We have many people who are not allowed to work. And many high dollar earners that can work remotely are moving out of taxiformia as quick as they can get a moving van to Texas and othet states with lower or no state taxes.  Multiple people that I work with have left the state.  

The golden has rubbed off this state, and it should be called the brown state, in honor of the millions of acres burned!

 




 

Tom Daspit
Morgan Hill, CA
Tom's Trains



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/21 18:19 by tomd.

goduckies Wrote:
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> It will probably get finished now that Biden won,
> God knows how much more money they will waste
> though.
>
> Posted from Android

Wanna bet on it? Gets approved in 08, takes 10 years to break ground, and you're claiming this will be done under Biden? You must be joking!

goduckies Wrote:
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> It will probably get finished now that Biden won,
> God knows how much more money they will waste
> though.

I had to read between the lines, but the phrase "dripping with sarcasm" comes to mind. :-)

CA HSR is boasting about the grade separations in the Fresno/Madera area. Currently, the beneficiary is BNSF, as these projects are being done where CA HSR ROW is supposed to parallel the BNSF.

Whether CA HSR soldiers on with just the state money, or if Kamala Harris lobbies for the return of Federal $$ to her home state for the project (and satisfy the power brokers who helped her ticket), I doubt the project will make enough progress to finish the Bay Area to Los Angeles basin in 4-8 years. Or just listen to ProAmtrak above.

No amount of money can overcome incompetence and mismanagement. Remember that many Shinkansen lines (original Tokaido Line, Joetsu, Nagano, Kyushu, and Hokuriku Lines) worked on mountain passes FIRST or simultaneously with easier terrains, to meet project deadlines. I personally rode on parts of Kyushu Shinkansen in the mid 2000s, where the high speed section through the mountain passes started revenue service first. 

There have been absolutely no progress on Pacheco and Tehachapi passes, and I'm being nice.

To finish Bakersfield to LA section, the tunnels needed to be start detail design now. Property negotiations also need to be started now, but should face fewer issue than in Central Valley. Money can be spread out over the years. It is possible to finish construction by the 2028 LA Olympic, but would be a tight schedule. 

Also, does US currently have enough expertise and workers to do two mountain crossings both with multiple tunnel at once, even if money is available?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/21 22:17 by will74205.

robj Wrote:

> But what does finished mean. Finished finished or
> the the stub segment that was paired down.?
>

Finished meaning a passenger can go to a station, get on a train, ride to another (different) station and deboard. 
The entire project doesn't have to be completed all at once; many transportation projects are built in sections.

Now, it might be hard to see the value in a Bakersfield-Merced HSR. A regular Amtrak San Joaquin can do the trip in 3 hours, about 30 minutes longer than driving.
What would be nice, and perhaps somewhat more meaningful, is if we could route the HSR trains over the existing rail network between Merced and the Bay Area
(not necessarily to San Francisco, Oakland might be ok), at least until the trackage from Merced to San Jose is completed..

What bothers me, and perhaps most rail advocates, is not only the lack of progress on the project, but also the fact that there is no idea when at least a minimally-meaningful part will be completed.
I'm comparing it to the Metro Red Line in Los Angeles. We passed the ballot measure (Proposition "A") in November 1980, groundbreaking took place in September 1986, and the first segment
(4.4 miles between LA Union Station and the Westlake district) opened in late January 1993. That's a little over 12 years between the vote and a meaningful project (that short stub of a subway
enabled transfers from Metrolink, improved mobility in downtown LA, and even revitalized a relatively impoverished neighborhood just outside of downtown). Not too long after opening, the line was 
carrying about 18,000 daily passengers.

Compare to CAHSR. The vote to build the project passed in 2008, and groundbreaking (somewhere in Fresno) in 2015. Here we are in 2021, about 12-13 years later, and we're not anywhere
close to having a usable project. Yes, I know there were problems with acquiring property, and funding, and politics. But those things happened with the Metro Red Line as well, and it still got built.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/21 22:21 by cph.

@cph, search "Northern California Unified Service" online, it is how HSR plans to serve the SF Bay Area before the Pacheco tunnel is completed. But, as usual, the problem lies with the freight railways who owned all the existing rail lines between the Bay Area and Central Valley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/21 22:44 by will74205.

As usual, very little talk about trains, and lots of talk about money and politics. Yuk.

(Appeal here for better moderating.  I would vote for all political posts being removed, at the very least.  There are other sites where 1 or 2 political rants will get u suspended)

will74205 Wrote:
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> @cph, search "Northern California Unified Service"
> online, it is how HSR plans to serve the SF Bay
> Area before the Pacheco tunnel is completed. But,
> as usual, the problem lies with the freight
> railways who owned all the existing rail lines
> between the Bay Area and Central Valley.

Have they talked to UP About Tehachapi? Lol... would love to be s fly in that room.and I meant fully funded. We have only Manchin standing away from an unlimited checkbook for anything. Man is about to he rich.

Posted from Android

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As usual, very little talk about trains, and lots
> of talk about money and politics. Yuk.
>
> (Appeal here for better moderating.  I would vote
> for all political posts being removed, at the very
> least.  There are other sites where 1 or 2
> political rants will get u suspended)

There was talk about trains even in my post. Sorry politics will come in to play when it comes to Amtrak and spending. It is what it is.

Posted from Android

"Sorry politics will come in to play when it comes to Amtrak and spending. It is what it is."

This.

I know it’s beating the rotting horse but an incredible amount of money getting spent on a right of way to nowhere, on ROW that can’t even be interfaced with any standard North America equipment seems asinine at best and mentally questionable at worst. Wouldn’t the money spent have been better used to upgrade existing track to 80-100+mph, or even better get rid of the “slow” track. The easiest way to go fast is not go slow.
Oh well the state of Illinois spent a bazillion Bucks so a couple of trains can go almost as fast as trains did 60 years ago. 🤯
Gee I wonder why the American public has such a dim view of railroads. 🚂💩

Posted from iPhone

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As usual, very little talk about trains, and lots
> of talk about money and politics. Yuk.
>
> (Appeal here for better moderating.  I would vote
> for all political posts being removed, at the very
> least.  There are other sites where 1 or 2
> political rants will get u suspended)

i have NO problem with this thread or the posts in it.

spending BILLIONS of dollars on an hsr system that has NOT been completed is related to politics.........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/21 06:48 by goneon66.

I'll be the first one in line for the first ticket! :)

Japan and Europe are smaller countries with higher population densities; with shorter distances than in the US, HSR is more competitive with air travel.  Because the countries are smaller and distances are shorter, freight trains are less compete than trucks freeing up rails for passenger.  Gas for automobiles is 2 to 3 times what we pay in the U.S., which discourages people from owning cars and driving.  The Chinese constitution makes land acquisition less expensive:  Article 13 of their constitution provides that: "The country may, as necessitated by public interest, expropriate or requisition citizens' private property and pay compensation therefor."  Instead of putting resources into interstate highway systems, these countries have invested resources in HSR.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As usual, very little talk about trains, and lots
> of talk about money and politics. Yuk.
>
> (Appeal here for better moderating.  I would vote
> for all political posts being removed, at the very
> least.  There are other sites where 1 or 2
> political rants will get u suspended)

There is hardly anything about passenger rail, especially HSR, that isn't political. CAHSR is a government boondoggle...er...project, funded by taxpayers. But hey, let's all pretend this albatross is being paid for from a magic money tree and, by all means, let's encourage more cancel culture BS against anyone who dares point out the fiscal realities. 

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pdt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As usual, very little talk about trains, and
> lots
> > of talk about money and politics. Yuk.
> >
> > (Appeal here for better moderating.  I would
> vote
> > for all political posts being removed, at the
> very
> > least.  There are other sites where 1 or 2
> > political rants will get u suspended)
>
> There is hardly anything about passenger rail,
> especially HSR, that isn't political. CAHSR is a
> government boondoggle...er...project, funded by
> taxpayers. But hey, let's all pretend this
> albatross is being paid for from a magic money
> tree and, by all means, let's encourage more
> cancel culture BS against anyone who dares point
> out the fiscal realities. 


Exactly

Posted from Android

Not sure if the KUTV piece is the same or based on the recent LA Times piece. In the LA Times, a major ongoing problem is that the state has not competed the purchase of hundreds (maybe it was over a thousand) parcels that are needed for construction. It’s not just the ROW for the tracks or train bridges, but it’s to move utilities or build road bridges over/under the tracks. The are so delayed the contractor is talking about layoffs.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone