Passenger Trains > Amtrak Connects US flyer and map

In case you havent seen Amtrak's new dream.

"Citing the need to finally attack a multi-billion dollar backlog of century-old Northeast Corridor bridge and tunnel replacements, Amtrak CEO Bill Flynn followed President Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan announcement with the first outlines of a proposal that would jump-start expansion of state-supported intercity corridors with an infusion of upfront capital assistance."

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Amtrak-Connects-Us-Fact-Sheet-for-Statement.pdf

Quite a few routes that have been talked about for awhile, but a few new curves thrown in to the plan too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/21 09:46 by mpe383.

no  wind or pioneer boo

Shows Amtrak's zero interest and contempt for the national network. What State DOT would be the least bit interested in taking on more after 5 years when they can get 80% federal match on highways.

Where is Boise and Billings ? 
Why is Harrisburg - Pittsburgh not on the national network ? 

But some of these lines are ridiculous.
Chicago - Toronto ? Have they forgotten the Customs fiasco with the International, that has also reduced Canadian Maple Leaf patronage to a bus load ?

Send Amtrak to Ronkonkoma, LI - Why ??? It is beyond silly, LIRR runs at least 6 trains per hour out of Manhattan. Ronkonkoma is one of 10 branches. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/21 10:14 by joemvcnj.

Nothing in this plan about other long distance services that disappeared inspite of healthy ridership:
 - Floridian
 - North Coast Hiawatha (at least Montana is organizing themselves)
 - Pioneer
 - Desert Wind
 - Sunset Ltd. east of NOL

I find Amtrak's vision is very narrow on the NEC.  The rest of the country might reluctantly get train service, if Amtrak deems it worthy.  Or if Congress forces them to consider it.  

 

I notice Northern Cal gets screwed on this plan. Extended service Sacramento South and Eugene North, but nothing around Redding and the Shasta route that gets hosed by middle of the night service. Gee, just like the state of California, nothing seems to exist north of Sacramento. This is what keeps me from using Amtrak. Who wants to load a train at 330 in the morning so you can return to find your rig stripped or a homeless camp in the bed of your truck.

Fun to think about -- but its just a "vision" for 15 years from now.  Just "talk" at this point.

I'm interested in Mr, Flynn--"The Man of Action"

So far, he has taken two "Action  Steps" - 1) restoring Bos-Wash sleeper, 2) taking Frt. RR's to court

(so far, he has taken NO negative actions)

No line connects Pueblo to the SW Chief. We can't have that now. It might strengthen two parallel LD routes with an increase in the city pair permutations of itineraries, like Salt Lake City / Glenwood Springs / Denver to Newton / Topeka / Kansas City.

Stephen Gardner's fingerprints are all over that map.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/21 14:15 by joemvcnj.

All that money and the Sunset East service is still "suspended"?  What a joke.

Repeal PRIIA Section 209. Vision map then would look a lot different.

Amtrak is stuck in the 1960's that no one wants to travel by train over a couple of hundred miles. Judging by the percentage of ridership loss due to Covid among the NEC, the other corridors, and LD, and where Amtrak is now engaging in fire sales out of desperation, they got that exactly backwards.  

April Fools!!!!!

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Repeal PRIIA Section 209. Vision map then would
> look a lot different.
>
> Amtrak is stuck in the 1960's that no one wants to
> travel by train over a couple of hundred miles.
> Judging by the percentage of ridership loss due to
> Covid among the NEC, the other corridors, and LD,
> and where Amtrak is now engaging in fire sales out
> of desperation, they got that exactly
> backwards.  
Ive often thought about this. Western Pacific wanted out of the Zephyr business as there was more cash in freight but did understand the benifits the CZ had on business. But the fact that WP wasnt getting its share of profits VS miles of track and that new equipment was going to have to be purchased along with staffing costs it was a loosing deal. Then I look at how much Amtrak spends on equipment/personel, dulicate facilities, track usage fees and infastructure. I would wonder if WP would have gotten out of the CZ dusiness if the Amtrak cash had been given to them to continue to operate.

NOT impressed. No proposal for Dallas - Ft Worth - El Paso, no DFW section for the Crescent, no service Jacksonville - Miami (over the FEC), etc.

Why doesn’t the state of Hawaii subsidize an Amtrak train?

Creative thinking by Amtrak. Give the proposal a chance.

Look at that map and one glaring thing jumps out.... If you’re living between the Mississippi River and the West Coast you better not want to travel North/South by train.
It’s a dead horse I love to beat. Denver to D/FW, Austin or Houston? Why via Chicago of course. Same for KC to Denver. And that “commuter” line Denver to Pueblo? According to those in the know Denver has spent the last 30 years making this almost impossible from DUS by ripping out all the tracks and developing on the ROW that went south, of course I’m sure that land can be bought back for a “fair price”.
A pox on this nonsense.

Posted from iPhone

TomG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Repeal PRIIA Section 209. Vision map then would
> > look a lot different.
> >
> > Amtrak is stuck in the 1960's that no one wants
> to
> > travel by train over a couple of hundred miles.
> > Judging by the percentage of ridership loss due
> to
> > Covid among the NEC, the other corridors, and
> LD,
> > and where Amtrak is now engaging in fire sales
> out
> > of desperation, they got that exactly
> > backwards.  
> Ive often thought about this. Western Pacific
> wanted out of the Zephyr business as there was
> more cash in freight but did understand the
> benifits the CZ had on business. But the fact that
> WP wasnt getting its share of profits VS miles of
> track and that new equipment was going to have to
> be purchased along with staffing costs it was a
> loosing deal. Then I look at how much Amtrak
> spends on equipment/personel, dulicate facilities,
> track usage fees and infastructure. I would wonder
> if WP would have gotten out of the CZ dusiness if
> the Amtrak cash had been given to them to continue
> to operate.

This is still a question for MANY 50 years later.......what trains prior to their discontinuance could have "made it" past 1971 had they just received a subsidy from the government to operate......Service was in decline from the 1960s into the 1970s, but some trains still had a shadow of their past, or there was still "something" there to work with. The California Zephyr and Santa Fe passenger trains top the list......... 

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why doesn’t the state of Hawaii subsidize an Amtrak train?


Something something 750 miles PRIIA Act of Congress

Or do you mean like this?


Kristi Noem Upset Amtrak Won't Use Infrastructure Money For Rail Lines to Alaska, Hawaii and South Dakota

  https://www.newsweek.com/kristi-noem-upset-amtrak-wont-use-infrastructure-money-rail-lines-alaska-hawaii-south-dakota-1580594

I would be shocked if there was nothing in the overall Infrastructure bill for Hawaii.  I seem to recall a rail mass transit project in progress right now that has already attracted the usual naysayers...

Not that there is any chance for any Republican Party votes in favor of ANY kind of bill that does not exclusively aid the richest folks who have ever walked the planet Earth.  Recent legislation that has the support of over 70% of the American Population got how many Republican votes?


Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/21 05:52 by choodude.

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sp1110 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why doesn’t the state of Hawaii subsidize an
> Amtrak train?
>
>
> Something something 750 miles PRIIA Act of
> Congress
>
> Or do you mean like this?
>
>
> Kristi Noem Upset Amtrak Won't Use Infrastructure
> Money For Rail Lines to Alaska, Hawaii and South
> Dakota
>
>  
> https://www.newsweek.com/kristi-noem-upset-amtrak-
> wont-use-infrastructure-money-rail-lines-alaska-ha
> waii-south-dakota-1580594
>
> I would be shocked if there was nothing in the
> overall Infrastructure bill for Hawaii.  I seem
> to recall a rail mass transit project in progress
> right now that has already attracted the usual
> naysayers...

maybe some naysayers want ALL of public rail mass transit to be safer:

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/womens-security-on-public-transit-is-a-pervasive-problem/554896/


> Not that there is any chance for any Republican
> Party votes in favor of ANY kind of bill that does
> not exclusively aid the richest folks who have
> ever walked the planet Earth.  Recent legislation
> that has the support of over 70% of the American
> Population got how many Republican votes?
>
>
> Brian

66

Denver to DFW should be a no brainer.  Lots of air travel and auto travel between these two pairs,
and good fast tracks to run on.  Of course, BN might not like that too much.

There's a concentration to building "corridors" for sure.

However, Amtrak also did something successful in the past - that is LD trains would split at a certain point and serve to final destinations/terminals. The Crescent split to head to Mobile. There was the plan to split the Crescent at Meridian and run it to Dallas-Ft. Worth. I wish Amtrak would consider making LD trains more efficient by a potential splitting of the train to serve other markets/destinations. Moreover, the Floridian and National Limited would likely unite two or three corridors, but in the form of a LD train. Why not try that first, as a catalyst to eventually build in the shorter corridor runs eventually. 

Amtrak has these various corridors they want to develop. But in light of the $80T, how does the money break down between how much a state is going to support and how much is Amtrak going to subsidize? Originally Amtrak said it would help subsidize the start up costs of a corridor and even up to five years of operation of the corridor, but then the costs would have to revert to the State completely. How does all this now reconcile with the $80T that Amtrak will hopefully get? This is where it might be more effective to put a LD National Network train in place that runs from Chicago to Florida, the build out of the route and operation of the LD train is an Amtrak National Cost, but then the States can come onboard at some point with their shorter corridor development within the LD route. Using Amtrak's current map, how many corridors "could" be united if a train ran from Chicago to Florida (Chicago to Louisville and then Nashville to Savannah???), or if a Crescent section ran from Atlanta to Montgomery to Mobile to New Orleans....... 

The Front range is lacking any BIG vision. A north-south train would work better here. Connect Las Vegas and Salt Lake City with the Desert Wind and put the Pioneer back on the map. Split the Texas Eagle so it can head to Houston. If additional "corridor" trains develop within the LD network, all the better.

The present Amtrak "corridor plan" calls for the states to take over operational costs, and will the states be able to do that??? This is why it may be better to secure and restore a few LD trains on the map.....