Passenger Trains > Bill would fund study of high-speed commuter rail Nebraska

Bill would fund study of high-speed commuter rail between Omaha and Lincoln

https://omaha.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/bill-would-fund-study-of-high-speed-commuter-rail-between-omaha-and-lincoln/article_5f6ccb0c-73e1-11ec-b39b-c75a2374a164.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

Good luck Nebraska.  Probably a light rail system with stops in suburbs, park and ride centers, and the downtown would be money better spent.  By the time all interested parties want stops along the way it suddenly doesn't become high speed rail anymore.

Seems like there would be way more city pairs where this would be much more viable. 

Rail runner part 2?

Bob

There’s “free” money out there. Quick let’s study something and get some.

A close look at California's efforts should tell them a lot.
—Mac
 

howeld Wrote:
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> There’s “free” money out there. Quick
> let’s study something and get some.

Exactly. "Free" money, lots of political talk about infrastructure, and things like Amtrak's proposed regional route expansion plans all help to create a general feeling that such plans are of course a good thing...and let's do one in our area. The consultants have to be absolutely salivating at the prospects of doing lots of studies.

It all seems fine until the price tag is known, and the uh-oh moment of truth is reached. Then the game moves to the extra innings of "how to we let someone else pay for it". As the cost keeps growing.

MC

Train29 Wrote:
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> Seems like there would be way more city pairs
> where this would be much more viable. 

Which other city pair(s) in Nebraska would be more viable?

amtrakbill Wrote:
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> Good luck Nebraska.  Probably a light rail system
> with stops in suburbs, park and ride centers, and
> the downtown would be money better spent.  By the
> time all interested parties want stops along the
> way it suddenly doesn't become high speed rail
> anymore.

High Speed is a buzzword...a way overused buzzword. It is complicated by the various superlatives attached to sound more impressive - Super High Speed, Ultra High Speed, True High Speed, etc. Then, there's Higher Speed, to be maligned by the folks who fantasize about trains running at WARP 3. FRA complicates it further, adding the terms Emerging High Speed Rail and High Speed Rail Regional. Fans then confuse the issue further by making diminutive or superlative arguments about someone else's favorite and theirs. The HSR fan club chants America Needs High Speed Rail we must have High Speed Rail; everyone else in the world rides High Speed Rail why don't we, and on and on and on and on.

In Europe, trains we categorize as Higher Speed Rail are called...trains. It's no wonder that non-industry folks get the terminology wrong.

Taking away the propaganda, five percent of worldwide passenger miles are HSR (125 mph or more by EU and UIC definition). China is the talk of the town. 28 percent of China's rail network has a maximum speed of over 150 mph. Another often used example is Japan. We're led to believe that everyone in Japan rides Shinkansen. Shinkansen is 15% of the Japanese rail network. TGV is 10 percent of the French network.

China built the extensive HSR network largely because the conventional network is saturated and they needed more room for freight trains. They needed new rail lines anyway.

So, reading the article, the term "high speed" is used in this context to sound cool. They're talking about regional trains between Lincoln and Omaha an improved BNSF line...or (since the term is also often misused) commuter trains.

The plan doesn't look unrealistic and their local railroad is the one in the US most friendly to such initiatives.

TAW

 

I consider the phrase "high-speed commuter railroad"  to be an oxymoron. To me high speed rail (HSR) connotes intercity trains over long distances with few intermediate stops operating >125mph. Pretty much the exact opposite of a commuter rail operation. And here's another important distinction -- cost. HSR train service is usually a lot more expensive than regular train service. When we were in Italy years ago, the ticket agent would ask us do you want the high speed or regular train -- often a factor of 3-4 difference between the fares. So I'd expect most riders would not be willing to pay HSR level fares on a daily basis.
Here in CA the idea that HSR between San Jose and Fresno will make Fresno a bedroom community to San Jose and Bay Area is poppycock.

WP17

DevalDragon Wrote:
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> Train29 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like there would be way more city pairs
> > where this would be much more viable. 
>
> Which other city pair(s) in Nebraska would be more
> viable?

Interesting question. Since we all believe that Lincoln to Omaha cannot be viable, if it is built it would loose money on every rider. So actually hauling people cost more than hauling no one. Don’t need station personnel. Fuel use is reduced which helps climate change! Train sets interior maintenance would be near zero. That would make any city city pair in Nebraska that has smaller population than Lincoln and Omaha more viable. So every city pair would be better……

I’ll send an invoice for some of that study money

WP17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I consider the phrase "high-speed commuter
> railroad"  to be an oxymoron. To me high speed
> rail (HSR) connotes intercity trains over long
> distances with few intermediate stops operating
> >125mph. Pretty much the exact opposite of a
> commuter rail operation. And here's another
> important distinction -- cost. HSR train service
> is usually a lot more expensive than regular train
> service. When we were in Italy years ago, the
> ticket agent would ask us do you want the high
> speed or regular train -- often a factor of 3-4
> difference between the fares. So I'd expect most
> riders would not be willing to pay HSR level fares
> on a daily basis.
> Here in CA the idea that HSR between San Jose and
> Fresno will make Fresno a bedroom community to San
> Jose and Bay Area is poppycock.

There is a lot of  intense marketing for HSR and nowadays, folks aren't interested if it doesn't go at least 200 mph (which is one percent of world HSR).

There are a lot of people who stand to make a lot of money on HSR, particularly on Super, Ultra, True and whatever superlative term du jour is used.

TAW

Likely, just Omaha to Lincoln. One advantage is just as many people commute Omaha to LIncoln as Lincoln-Omaha during the rush hours and all day. Thus, not as much as an imbalance of ridership.

DevalDragon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Train29 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like there would be way more city pairs
> > where this would be much more viable. 
>
> Which other city pair(s) in Nebraska would be more
> viable?

WP17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I consider the phrase "high-speed commuter
> railroad"  to be an oxymoron. To me high speed
> rail (HSR) connotes intercity trains over long
> distances with few intermediate stops operating
> >125mph. Pretty much the exact opposite of a
> commuter rail operation. And here's another
> important distinction -- cost. HSR train service
> is usually a lot more expensive than regular train
> service. When we were in Italy years ago, the
> ticket agent would ask us do you want the high
> speed or regular train -- often a factor of 3-4
> difference between the fares. So I'd expect most
> riders would not be willing to pay HSR level fares
> on a daily basis.
> Here in CA the idea that HSR between San Jose and
> Fresno will make Fresno a bedroom community to San
> Jose and Bay Area is poppycock.
>
> WP17

Good points. Florida's BrightLine had been issuing "commuter passes" for traffic in its 75 mile, three station network before Covid. Don't recall how deep the discount

howeld Wrote:
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>
> I’ll send an invoice for some of that study
> money

Ah, so you strive to be one of the people everyone here loves to complain about.

TAW

While everyone whines about it the Calif. system is quietly being built, the same situation as when the freeways and canal were being built here...
 

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

MojaveBill Wrote:
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> While everyone whines about it the Calif. system
> is quietly being built, the same situation as when
> the freeways and canal were being built here...
>  

A small part of the total end-to-end system is being built but very slowly and way behind schedule. And if the rest of the system is not built, the Merced Bakersfield segment will be effectively irrelevant.

WP17 (whining)

howeld Wrote:
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> There’s “free” money out there. Quick
> let’s study something and get some.

At least until the November midterms when reality sets in  ;-)

WP17 Wrote:
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> I consider the phrase "high-speed commuter
> railroad"  to be an oxymoron.
> WP17

Excatly ! More "fake news" LOL

 

SanDiegan Wrote:
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> howeld Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There’s “free” money out there. Quick
> > let’s study something and get some.
>
> At least until the November midterms when reality
> sets in  ;-)

Don’t underestimate both political parties ability to F-up a sure thing….