Passenger Trains > article on subway platform barriers..........

https://nypost.com/2022/01/24/platform-barriers-are-a-ridiculous-dodge-of-an-answer-to-subway-shovings/

66

I agree. It is a diversion from the homeless and mentally deranged epidemic that they are clueless about doing anything about. 

There are about 1,380 75' subway cars on the "B" Division that have door spacings that are incompatible with 60' cars, and they would have to be scrapped first. Then the doors widths of the replacement R211 cars are much wider than on the R143 and R160 cars. Expect that to be the case when the R262 replaces the R62's on the "A" Division. One size fits all does not work with a heterogeneous fleet. 

The City Council does not know what they are talking about.  Maybe if NYC actually funded subway operations and NYCT were a city agency, they'd come to their senses. 
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/22 08:22 by joemvcnj.

can you imagine attempting to spot ALL of the subway doors to line-up with the barrier openings!!!???

it might have a slight impact on system velocity............

66

There's a few feet of tolerance with stop markers and conductor boards. With platform doors, there is zero. Too many of these stuffed shirts have seen them on JFK Airtrain, which are 2 car trains that are lightly patronized. 

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can you imagine attempting to spot ALL of the
> subway doors to line-up with the barrier
> openings!!!???
>
> it might have a slight impact on system
> velocity............
>
> 66

Yet, in Japan (maybe other countries as well) that is exactly what they do.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > can you imagine attempting to spot ALL of the
> > subway doors to line-up with the barrier
> > openings!!!???
> >
> > it might have a slight impact on system
> > velocity............
> >
> > 66
>
> Yet, in Japan (maybe other countries as well) that
> is exactly what they do.


That's 'cause they are smarter than us.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > can you imagine attempting to spot ALL of the
> > subway doors to line-up with the barrier
> > openings!!!???
> >
> > it might have a slight impact on system
> > velocity............
> >
> > 66
>
> Yet, in Japan (maybe other countries as well) that
> is exactly what they do.

New York's primary problem is that it has a mish mash of rolling stock with doors positioned differently.

But as far as positioning trains correctly aligned with screen doors goes, apparently this is another case whree the rest of the world can do it but the great US of A or at least New York City allegedly cannot get its act together enough to do it without drastically slowing down their trains. The great nation of "Cannot Do" that we have become.:D

thanks for that image.

now, will barriers stop people's concerns for their safety on any public rail transit system in this country?

66

How about this. Forget about the barriers. Stop the homeless from accessing the platforms without proper tickets with ticket barriers. One armed staff nearby would also be a deterrent.  Then arrest them and prosecute for trespassing if they violate. . Sounds like a minor offence but not if they end up  pushing someone in front of a train. Sounds like they are trying to solve the problem at the end of the event, not before it happens. 

Well how about widening the buffer warning area at the edge of the platform.  Install some warning signs for passengers to keep back and be aware.  Erect barries where the trains do not stop.
Perhaps install some types of poles back of warning area to reinforce standing back and give older passengers something to stand next to.

On the CTA when I am waiting(haven't been there lately so even predates current problem) I normally stand back at the pillars.  Not just the idea of an intential push but just having someone trip and fall into me or I trip.

Bob Jordan.

 

Some cognizant awareness of who's around you would help too, and be all eyes, as opposed to being mezmorized by one's smartphone. 

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > can you imagine attempting to spot ALL of the
> > subway doors to line-up with the barrier
> > openings!!!???
> >
> > it might have a slight impact on system
> > velocity............
> >
> > 66
>
> Yet, in Japan (maybe other countries as well) that
> is exactly what they do.

Shanghai has some. Other stations simply have these, barriers where the doors are not.

---

while i think barriers are a good idea, the article states that since the pandemic, 3 of the 16 subway murders were caused by pushing a person onto the tracks.

maybe some other issues regarding REPEATED violent criminal behavior should be dealt with first..........

66

London's Crossrail Project, the Elizabeth Line, has floor to ceiling barriers with sliding doors and the trains seem to have no trouble matching doors.
Multiple Crossrail videos show it in action.

Japan has also come up with some solutions for platform barriers than can fleixbly accommodate doors anywhere along the platform length, thereby making uniformity of rolling stock a non-issue.

What if some full length 600' trains have 32 sets of doors, while others have 40 ? 

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep. Seems that only in America is this too hard
> for transit operators to handle. Doesn't speak
> well for "American excellence".
>
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > London's Crossrail Project, the Elizabeth Line,
> > has floor to ceiling barriers with sliding
> doors
> > and the trains seem to have no trouble matching
> > doors.
> > Multiple Crossrail videos show it in action.

That is because here in the US, special interest groups, politicians and lawyers have more say than what is common sense to common John Q. Public.

pennengineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Japan has also come up with some solutions for
> platform barriers than can fleixbly accommodate
> doors anywhere along the platform length, thereby
> making uniformity of rolling stock a non-issue.

Boy I'd love to see how that works. Do you have any pics?

symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pennengineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Japan has also come up with some solutions for
> > platform barriers than can fleixbly accommodate
> > doors anywhere along the platform length,
> thereby
> > making uniformity of rolling stock a non-issue.
>
> Boy I'd love to see how that works. Do you have
> any pics?

Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u04gEWhBV4E (not sure if links of this type are allowed, but I couldn't figure out how to describe where to find out without the direct link)

There's also a discussion thread on a Japanese modeling forum with a pretty lengthy explanation -- I'll PM you the link. Seems it was an experimental design only implemented at a few select stations. But it shows that there are some theoretical possibilities...

Considering how much of the subway doesn't have any issue with regards to door placement, and how soon the rest of the cars with incompatable door placement are being repaced, door differences are a whole nonissue. 

You could convert the entirety of the former IRT today along with the Queens IND which can't get 75 footers due to the new CBTC signaling system and the eastern division BMT which has never been able to handle 75 footers. That is roughly half the system that could be done today.
Even if you convert that half of the system incredibly quickly By the time you finish with all of that, the rest of the 75 footers will be gone and you can get the rest. 

Yes, it would be possible to have doors which change position, but why bother with an expensive solution when the door placement problem will be solved within a decade and a half, long before there is any chance it would be rolled out systemwide anyway? 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/22 08:17 by R30A.