Passenger Trains > Trip Optimizer to reduce crew size on Passenger Trains?

With PTC now installed and enforcing when to put the brake on, will a system similar to trip optimizer be developed next for the route and consist of passenger trains in the US ? 

This could eventually have the carrier forcing a combined craft in passenger service and simply let an attendant (OBS) handle passengers leaving two at most operating department employees on the head end.

Ya think this is a new concept? Been done on VIA for years without PTC..

Different country, different FRA. 

Engineers I know hate trip optimizer.  On CSX you are stuck at 40 mph for 200 miles.  

How does apply on passenger operations?  

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Engineers I know hate trip optimizer.  On CSX you
> are stuck at 40 mph for 200 miles.  
>
> How does apply on passenger operations?  

It is a computer program, and does what it is programmed to do.  CSX leans towards fuel conservation, so it runs the trains slower.  If it actually saves fuel is a conversation for a different board.   However, if the programming was done for optimal speed, the results would not be the same.  

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, if the programming
> was done for optimal speed, the results would not
> be the same.  

You can say that again!

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MEKoch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Engineers I know hate trip optimizer.  On CSX
> you
> > are stuck at 40 mph for 200 miles.  
> >
> > How does apply on passenger operations?  
>
> It is a computer program, and does what it is
> programmed to do.  CSX leans towards fuel
> conservation, so it runs the trains slower.  If
> it actually saves fuel is a conversation for a
> different board.   However, if the programming
> was done for optimal speed, the results would not
> be the same.  

Right. Most High Speed Trains of the world have trip optimizers that gives guidance to the operator. Some even can be used almost like an autopilot.Tthe operator can choose to use it or take over and operate manually..

The bulk of passenger trains in the United States run with a conductor (with passengers) and an engineer. Some run with 2 engineers over x miles. Some have an assistant conductor depending on the number of passengers/cars

Brightline as an example, runs with an engineer and an ops(conductor) manager along with an OBS team member (passes out food, alcohol, etc)

Other countries on the flipside run with a driver (engineer) and onboard services, however, the OBS can also handle other tasks related to rail operations. There aren't many manual throw switches and virtually everything is power switches. 

You'll never, EVER see that kind of investment in North America to eliminate conductors that wouldn't catastrophically delay passenger or freight trains.

You'd have to a real deep hatred of people to be able to be maniacal enough to put trip optimizer on a passenger train...

ATSF1129 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You'd have to a real deep hatred of people to be
> able to be maniacal enough to put trip optimizer
> on a passenger train...

Quote of the year.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

I agree but remember, this is the same industry that went from five man crews down to two thanks to technology.  I imagine a century ago, those guys were saying that it could never, ever happen.

When fuel and labor is the biggest annual burden compared to the start up cost of the technology. Look out.

Trip Optimizer can be sloppy with train handling....however versions that can link to PTC can run passenger speeds if PTC tells it to do so. And yes CSX strives for fuel conservation mostly but on my line they had to turn it up speedwise because we couldn't reliably get to the other end of the road with time to put the train away. So you know that TO can be customized both for the route in general and specific types of trains....a hot shot train for example might be allowed to make good speed while another train on the line can only strive for world record fuel savings by creeping along....and TO knows the difference because it knows what trains are what. It's done by instructing TO get certain trains to certain points in a certain average time. The less time it is allowed the faster it will run the train...the times that are set have to be doable within the speed limits that are available of course. If you set too short a time TO would just run hard against the speed limit and save nothing...maybe a little if it figured it could run the train with less than maximum power...and even it it's made to go close to speed limit it still has a bag of tricks that will save some fuel or at least it will on paper....YMMV.