Passenger Trains > Airline vs. Amtrak recovery from COVID

Dave Randall posted on All Aboard:

When you compare passenger miles [which equates to revenue], between pre covid 2019 and post covid 2022, airline management has done a far better job than Amtrak management.


(Sorry about losing the colums TO wipes out thecformatting)

[billions of mi] 2019 2022 Diff Percent

Amtrak 6.5 4.4 -2.1 -33%

Airlines 762.8 701.0 -61.8 -8%



Question: Why hasn’t Amtrak management been able to achieve the same post covid growth accomplished by airline management? Both have the same challenges.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/23 08:31 by GenePoon.

No, they do not have the same challenges. There are points of overlap, but it's all about time.Take San Antonio to chicago: The Eagle ??? or Southwest at about 2:30. Sa to DTW Amtrak = Painful thru Chicago: Delta about 3 hrs in the Airbus.   Except the NE Corridor It's all about time.

It took 3 hours on Airbus before Covid. Not a valid excuse. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/23 15:58 by joemvcnj.

NormSchultze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, they do not have the same challenges. There
> are points of overlap, but it's all about
> time.Take San Antonio to chicago: The Eagle ??? or
> Southwest at about 2:30. Sa to DTW Amtrak =
> Painful thru Chicago: Delta about 3 hrs in the
> Airbus.   Except the NE Corridor It's all about
> time.

That has nothing to do with failing to recover ridership to pre-Covid levels. People were OK with the time to ride then, so you think they now refuse to take the train? The biggest reasons business has not recovered is because capacity has been severely reduced, and there is no marketing. Prior to Covid the cardinal carried three coaches plus a biz class car. All last summer and this past Christmas they never had more than two coaches, and still no biz car. The high season demand is certainly there, but Amtrak is not trying to meet it. Hence, ridership numbers are severely depressed. Plus add in poor food service, dirty equipment, and abysmal lack of reliability on many routes, and you have a recipe for poor ridership.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/23 10:59 by alan2955.

I have to agree with everyone that Normschultz is wrong.

The airlines planned for a ramp up and recovery  post covid.   As soon as it seemed that we were over the hump on covid, they moved as fast as they could.

Amtk, OTOH,  laid off a lot of ppl and waiting WAY too long before calling ppl back, or hiring new ppl.   Its like they were planning to use Covid as an excuse to cut back service, as if saving money was their real objective, not providing RR passenger service.
 

One could almost be led to the conclusion that Amtrak could not let a good crisis go to waste LOL!

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave Randall posted on All Aboard:
>
> When you compare passenger miles , between pre
> covid 2019 and post covid 2022, airline management
> has done a far better job than Amtrak management.
>
>
> (Sorry about losing the colums TO wipes out
> thecformatting)
>
> 2019 2022 Diff Percent
>
> Amtrak 6.5 4.4
> -2.1 -33%
>
> Airlines 762.8 701.0 -61.8
> -8%
>
>
>
> Question: Why hasn’t Amtrak management been
> able to achieve the same post covid growth
> accomplished by airline management? Both have the
> same challenges.

This data isn't relevant without the corresponding capacity metrics (Available seat miles in the case of airlines)

Airline management has not downgraded service -- Gardner has - especially for LD coach passengers..

Airlines sometimes experience service delays -- Amtrak has horrible delays constantly, all the time, year round.

Example-- that 12 hour AutoTrain delay...and that Acela setting across from Sunnyside Yard for 7 hours without toilets
was painful to read about--much less endure.

How can we expect Amtrak to come back given these conditions?

Airlines where smart, Amtrak'll never get back to how they can run until Gardner and Co. are gone, plus the cutbacks on the LD Trains were bad even when Airline Boy was CEO!

Posted from Android

ronald321 Wrote:
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> Airline management has not downgraded service --
> Gardner has - especially for LD coach
> passengers..

The F&B reductions were all done before Gardner was in charge. I suppose one can say Gardner has continued them. Though as has been pointed out some things are planned to be reversed though of course no date yet and until there is it hasn't happened. I'm sure there are some that theorize that everything that was done before he was CEO was really his idea and brainchild but absent clear cut evidence that's just a theory some have.

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Airlines where smart, Amtrak'll never get back to
> how they can run until Gardner and Co. are gone,
> plus the cutbacks on the LD Trains were bad even
> when Airline Boy was CEO!
>
> Posted from Android

The airlines were not smart. They furloughed a lot of people and not all of them came back. That's why you've had airlines cutting back on their schedules, not enough bodies, both pilots and flight attendants to do the job.

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Airlines where smart, Amtrak'll never get back to
> how they can run until Gardner and Co. are gone,
> plus the cutbacks on the LD Trains were bad even
> when Airline Boy was CEO!

Airline Boy is actually Lawyer Boy. And your new nemesis should be Corridor Boy (Gardner), because he was in a position to "feed the B.S." to the revolving door CEOs (Moorman, Anderson, Flynn). No one should expect an outsider to implement effective policies in 1-1.5 years time at a large organization such as Amtrak. People who doubt that haven't been around long enough, or have not observed how organizations (doesn't matter if it's private or public sector) function.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ProAmtrak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Airlines where smart, Amtrak'll never get back
> to
> > how they can run until Gardner and Co. are
> gone,
> > plus the cutbacks on the LD Trains were bad
> even
> > when Airline Boy was CEO!
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> The airlines were not smart. They furloughed a lot
> of people and not all of them came back. That's
> why you've had airlines cutting back on their
> schedules, not enough bodies, both pilots and
> flight attendants to do the job.

They still seem to be doing better on the long run on hiring people, Amtrak still that cappy vaccine mandate on their hiring protocol still!

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question: Why hasn’t Amtrak management been
> able to achieve the same post covid growth
> accomplished by airline management? Both have the
> same challenges.

Still haven't restored the 2019 schedule.

Still capacity constraining trains with cars sitting idle to drive ticket prices high.  Watching the pitiful little pocket Cardinal with 2 coaches, a lounge, a sleeper and a dorm makes me sad each time.

Shockingly, a combination of lower capacity, a less frequent schedule, and higher prices has resulted in a huge reduction in ridership.