Passenger Trains > Adirondack good and bad news

The good news that the ADIRONDACK will resume service to Montreal on April 3 is clouded by the bad news that the portion of the trip in Canada will be so slow that, allowing for the added Customs delay at the border we are looking at a very much slower schedule than in 2020 and it was a 50mph route at best then.

The head of NYDOT's rail section was present at the joint ESPA/Regional New England Rail Passengers Meeting in Albany on March 11 and confirmed that the CN line north of the border is still subject to extensive slow orders. In addition the Customs and Immigration checks of course must remain at the border for now (as the new facility in Central Station is not built), which means as always a 60-90 minute pause in both directions.

But worse is that the CN has NOT done any track work yet to restore traditional passenger speed limits north of the border. The Rouses Point Subdivision is currently a mix of 10mph, 30mph and a few bits of 50mph track. Pre-COVID this was generally 50mph. This downgraded track classification means potentially 2-2.5 hours running time for the ADIRONDACK from the border to the junction with the main line near St. Lambert (and almost at Montreal). Pre-COVID, with the line mostly at 50mph, this run took 1 hour 35 minutes.

Bottom line is that the last 49 miles from Rouses Point to Montreal after April 3 will consume--with the border checks--3 to 4 hours.

The highly articulate and Amtrak supportive US Congressman (D) Paul Tonko, who represents the south end of the ADIRONDACK route around Saratoga Springs, was at the meeting and very graciously listened to my plea for him to appeal, in a bi-partisan coalition with (also very supportive of the train) Representative Elise Stefanik (R) and both New York Senators (D) in a plea for funds ASAP to resolve this situation. Obviously Quebec politicians who care about regaining US rail business to Montreal should be involved as well. But there is no time to send in the consultants and Amtrak can not force the CN in Canada to do the work as it might here.

In a perfect world Quebec and or the Canadian government would resolve this issue. But as there can be no local stops in Canada, and given that they will (hopefully) be contributing to the cost of the eventual border facility inside Central Station, that immediate Canadian/Quebec fiscal support is unlikely now.

CN has little incentive to act--as they can use the line for their daily freight to the US as it is.

Bottom line; this long and absurdly slow crawl from Montreal to/from the US border will disastrously impact, at a minimum, repeat ridership on the ADIRONDACK. Particularly northbound, non-railfan riders will be truly upset as they consume 150-180 minutes crawling 45 miles at alternately 10-30-50mph while on the CN. They will be “so near yet so far”! I can hear passenger cries of “Never again" already!

I am thrilled to see the ADIRONDACK back and we aren't talking rocket science here. Whether or not CN arbitrarily produced this situation, what is needed to fix it is ties, ballast and rail surfacing done now and longer term probably some more welded rail. This can’t happen as a “blitz” until the snow and ground melt, but it must be done then.

But this supposed to be overall a 50mph railroad. It no longer is. We don't need studies here. We need firm political support on both sides of the border to get this fixed NOW.l



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/23 07:44 by Railvt.

I guess because it is in Canada, the STB and FRA cannot exert any pressure.  Too bad.  CN should be ashamed of such a railroad.

I'm sure CN would be glad to do these improvements if Amtrak or the US taxpayers are willing to foot the bill.

So it is either 3 hour for 49 miles north of Lacolle or 6+ hours on Trailways or Greyhound north of Albany. 

CN is probably proud of all the money they saved, until their dirty laundry hits the free press in April, both here and in the Montreal Gazette. 

Let's be glad US Customs and CBSA did not throw sand in the gears and refuse to do on-board inspections. I'm guessing they blinked when US and Canadian politicians stared them down. 

Glad to hear train is returning. Though this is definitely going to complicate things.

When did the Amtrak route into Canada start using CN from the border?  When I rode this circa 1976, we used the former D&H from Albany to Rouses Point and I thought CP from there to Montreal.  I am missing something here?  What about all the the intermodal business that was supposedly going to run on CN jointly with CSX into Syracuse?  Is this time sensitive freight using a decrepit stretch of track?

CR900945 Wrote:
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> When did the Amtrak route into Canada start using
> CN from the border?  When I rode this circa 1976,
> we used the former D&H from Albany to Rouses Point
> and I thought CP from there to Montreal.  I am
> missing something here?  What about all the the
> intermodal business that was supposedly going to
> run on CN jointly with CSX into Syracuse?  Is
> this time sensitive freight using a decrepit
> stretch of track?

Around 1985, Amtrak switched, co-habitated with the Montrealer. Personally, I think Amtrak should stay on CP all the way to Lucien L'Allier. Arrange to have EXO service it in Montreal West. Yes I know it is a crappy station, but there are amenities and public transit within a block in all directions. So we either have crappy track to a nice station or nice track to crappy station. Pick your poison..

CN runs something like 7 freights a week to Vermont and 3 to NY, probably to eventually interchange with NS Yes, CN freights rock along at 10MPH. I have seen You Tubes. There's nothing time sensitive. I don't know how they route such freights, but it is not that way. 

The Class Is are an embarrassment right now.  Cut costs, screw service.  And now it is coming back to bite them.  See:  NS


joemvcnj Wrote:
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> So it is either 3 hour for 49 miles north of
> Lacolle or 6+ hours on Trailways or Greyhound
> north of Albany. 
>
> CN is probably proud of all the money they saved,
> until their dirty laundry hits the free press in
> April, both here and in the Montreal Gazette. 
>
> Let's be glad US Customs and CBSA did not throw
> sand in the gears and refuse to do on-board
> inspections. I'm guessing they blinked when US and
> Canadian politicians stared them down. 

Chessie1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Class Is are an embarrassment right now.  Cut
> costs, screw service.  And now it is coming back
> to bite them.  See:  NS

Unless they blow up a town, they are heroes with CNBC, Bloomburg, and Fox Business hosts. 

It's welcoming news that the Adirondack route will be returning to Montreal plus the Adirondack region. Many people who don't want to drive to not only Montreal but Plattsburgh and towns like Westport need to depend on the train to get there. However, CN really needs to find a way to upgrade their tracks north of the Canadian border that the Adirondack uses. It's worst now than what it was before the pandemic started. Hopefully one of these days, those slow orders can get lifted. It's also very important to have the pre-screening done at Montreal Gare Central Station. Hopefully that can someday happen which would lead to a faster ride to NY State. It would also be nice to see the Vermonter run to Montreal.

How many decades has it been since the Customs location in Montreal has been on the table? At least one, IIRC. The CN/CV route is a shadow of itself in the 80's. I don't think they even run a daily freight south of St Albans.

Why do something which is doomed to failure?

Don't run the train north of Rouses Point and use a bus connection to
and from Montreal until track upgrades can be made.

The bus riders can go through the customs and immigration procedures via current highway  facilities.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/23 14:23 by ts1457.

No place to stash the train overnight at Rouses Pt (or anywhere north of Saratoga). All the D&H yard trackage is gone. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/23 14:40 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> No place to stash the train overnight at Rouses Pt
> (or anywhere north of Saraoga). All the D&H yard
> trackage is gone. 

Then just forget about it. The time is not right to re-engage.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> How many decades has it been since the Customs
> location in Montreal has been on the table? At
> least one, IIRC. The CN/CV route is a shadow of
> itself in the 80's. I don't think they even run a
> daily freight south of St Albans.

It was designed fully. Then the Province had an election, flipped parties, threw those plans out, and awarded another C$1 million contract to another firm to play with their coloring book and crayons and do it again. Then I suppose they'll have another election.... 

There are advantages to using CP if Canada chooses to locate border controls at the border.

Why not try that for a year or two and see what happens?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are advantages to using CP if Canada chooses
> to locate border controls at the border.
>
> Why not try that for a year or two and see what
> happens?

I'm game. But many will bitch about Lucien L'Allier and propose using industrial trackage from it to to get back on the CN around Brossard.

The beautiful Lacolle stone RR depot along the former D&H (Napierville Jct Rwy) is still there and is what was used until 1985 for Customs. It also coincides with the EXO Candiac line.

With the slow running, ridership will be lower, so less chance Customs will dither and procrastinate for at least 90 minutes each way. 

Exactly 14 years ago today, Amtrak ran a test train to Montreal on the CP line. Here it is at the Montreal West station on its southbound trip,

Ray



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/23 17:34 by Ray_Murphy.

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CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> The CN/CV route is a shadow of
> itself in the 80's. I don't think they even run a
> daily freight south of St Albans.

They do, five days/week.  Agree on the first part of your statement though.

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly 14 years ago today, Amtrak ran a test
> train to Montreal on the CP line. Here it is at
> the Montreal West station on its southbound trip,

What prompted that ?