Passenger Trains > NJ rep wants to study cost of one seat, two seat rides

Freshman Representative Tom Kean Jr (R-NJ) has introduced a federal bill in Congress to study the cost of having to change trains in order to ride into a major city. His district includes much of the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line, and is adjacent to the NJT North Jersey Coast Line.   Previous studies on the topic have concluded that another NJT line would have to give up a direct train slot to allow any other RVL or NJCL trains direct access to NYC. That was considered politically impossible. Other studies recommended waiting until the ARC Tunnel, and then the Gateway Tunnel is completed.

NJ.com  https://www.nj.com/news/2023/03/freshman-congressman-keans-first-bill-tackles-an-issue-that-frustrates-nj-commuters.html

Given that 55% of Raritan riders do not take NJT to Penn Station, he should focus on other issues, like adding train frequencies lost from Covid and during the Christie administration, and some high level platforms and ADA at busier stations like Fanwood, Dunellen, and Raritan.

He is merely speaking for the Raritan Valley Rail Coalition, founded by the late Rep. Bob Frank's in the early 1990's. But for the last 20 years, they have morphed into a Westfield real enhancement political group with a single issue of a one seat ride, have accomplished nothing, and none of the commuters know they exist.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/23 04:52 by joemvcnj.

More stations along the RVL need to be high level platform-might I add stations like Netherwood, and Bound Brook. They are both along straightaways.

This talk about a single-seat ride to NYC from the RVL has gone on since the Aldene Plan was first discussed in the mid-1960s, and we aren't any closer today than then.  So don't hold your breath now.  I agree with the earlier comment - I would be surprised even 45% of RVL riders go to Penn Station, as there aren't many office buildings around there - I bet most RVL passengers walk over to Path and take it to Wall Street or Jersey City.  And those that do go to Penn Station I bet get on a subway in NYC to go somewhere, so they don't have a single-seat ride anyway.

If they want to study the issue with the single-seat-ride and express-train issue, they need to look at the Coast Line.  Passengers south of Long Branch hate the train change, and I think most commuters would rather drive to Long Branch than get on a train in a station such as Pt. Pleasant.  And, the train rides from south of Long Branch are far too long to be practical.  

No major increase in NJT rail service into and out of NYP until Gateway is completed. It's unfortunately not going to happen for a long time, although maybe it could happen in increments. The Coastline below(railroad west) of Long Branch-the ride is too long on a local train from North Jersey. I hope though that this summer and many more, there could be a couple of weekend shore express trains from NYP-Bay Head. Once Gateway is finished, then run more of an hourly service to Bay Head and every train running to BH would be an express to either Long Branch or Aberdeen-Matawan. At those two stations, local trains would originate and end there. People who live in the towns in diesel country along the Coast Line-many probably don't even drive to Long Branch for more frequent and direct service. I've heard about many people who drive to either Aberdeen-Matawan and Metropark.

ctjacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This talk about a single-seat ride to NYC from the
> RVL has gone on since the Aldene Plan was first
> discussed in the mid-1960s, and we aren't any
> closer today than then.  So don't hold your
> breath now.  I agree with the earlier comment - I
> would be surprised even 45% of RVL riders go to
> Penn Station, as there aren't many office
> buildings around there - I bet most RVL passengers
> walk over to Path and take it to Wall Street or
> Jersey City.  And those that do go to Penn
> Station I bet get on a subway in NYC to go
> somewhere, so they don't have a single-seat ride
> anyway.

There has been an ongoing pissing contest between Summit and Westfield since Midtown Direct service started on the M&E in the 1990's.

LIRR has 2 token trains each for Port Jefferson and Speonk. Since Ronkonkoma was electrified, those other two branches have lost 40% of their ridership. All those two trains for each branch did was coalesce ridership intra-branch on the same line so they have not shrunk, whereas all their other rush hour trains have gone down to 4 cars.

So if the Raritan Line got one token dual-mode rush hour train to NYPS, riders might take it instead of the train 15 or 20 minutes ahead of it or behind it, will get over-crowded, station dwell times will increase, most station platforms cannot  hold 7 cars, and the 8 minutes transfer time at Newark vanishes as dwell time increases every place else.Consists are also limited to 7 multi-level or 8 Comet cars. Anything more will not make the hill out to High Bridge and they are not going to top and tail the trains with two locomotives.

The RVRC claims the Raritan Line ridership in on par with the Coast Line so they are entitled. That does not take into account ridership of those trains between Newark Airport and Elizabeth are credited to the Northeast Corridor, and so are under-counted. 

All in all, it is totally political and impractical. Rep. Kean needs to face reality or get a new hobby. 

.   

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given that 55% of Raritan riders do not take NJT
> to Penn Station, he should focus on other issues,
> like adding train frequencies lost from Covid and
> during the Christie administration, and some high
> level platforms and ADA at busier stations like
> Fanwood, Dunellen, and Raritan.
>
That means 45% of the riders DO take New Jersey Transit to Penn Station which is a significant percentage.  Perhaps the percentage would increase if more direct train service was added.  (I really don't know one way or the other.  However, if you have data showing that introduction of one-seat rides would not increase the number of commuters riding directly to Penn Station, feel free to share here).

A more valid criticism is that this is more a local/regional matter to be addressed by the New Jersey legislature or perhaps a regional planning agency, not US Congress.  Outside of the New York metropolitan area, there are very few commuter rail systems* which do not have all of their service serving their metro areas' central business districts.

SMART in the San Francisco Bay Area is one system that comes to mind which does not service the region's major central business district.  However, a direct rail extension from its current southern terminus at Larkspur into San Francisco is  and unrealistic prospect.
 

Why are we having a contest to raise the 45% percentage ? People who work in downtown Newark, lower Manhattan, and Jersey City do not want to go to NY Penn Station. Jersey City looks more like Manhattan than Manhattan does. I don't know much about other large legacy systems, like Boston but this is not like Chicago or Philly.  

The peak load point of NYPS bound trains is west of Newark. More people get off at NEC and NJCL trains than get on at Newark, which means there's room for Raritan line passenger. I have been on AM rush crushload, cattle trains on the NEC, and an amount equal to everyone standing is out at Newark, most darting across the platform to PATH, and most not replaced with boarders.It makes no sense to throw an 8 - 10 car NEC or NJCL train out of Manhattan to let in a 7 car Raritan train with half its people getting out at Newark, and until the Gateway tunnels are built, that will be a fact.   

That's why the RVRC has been a belch in a hurricane for 20 years and has become a single issue outfit. 


 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Freshman Representative Tom Kean Jr (R-NJ) has
> introduced a federal bill in Congress to study the
> cost of having to change trains in order to ride
> into a major city. His district includes much of
> the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line, and is
> adjacent to the NJT North Jersey Coast Line.  
> Previous studies on the topic have concluded that
> another NJT line would have to give up a direct
> train slot to allow any other RVL or NJCL trains
> direct access to NYC. That was considered
> politically impossible. Other studies recommended
> waiting until the ARC Tunnel, and then the Gateway
> Tunnel is completed.
>
> NJ.com 
> https://www.nj.com/news/2023/03/freshman-congressm
> an-keans-first-bill-tackles-an-issue-that-frustrat
> es-nj-commuters.html

Why on earth does he think the federal Congress should spend even a single minute of their time on what amounts to this internacine warfare between two pieces of NJ beats me.

Representative Kean spent years in the legislature, representing the district most affected by this problem.  He could have worked with NJ Transit, and with the state DOT,  Amtrak etc.  He was the minority leader during much of this time, and could have made an impact. (In NJ, many things have to be done with 60% votes, so you have to work together. He did that with most authority issues, judge issues, patronage jobs, etc)

But, he chose not to make this an issue to be resolved in the state legislature. Preferring to grandstand in Congress on an issue that will go nowhere other than on the front page of local newspapers in his district.

Jishnu Wrote:

> Why on earth does he think the federal Congress
> should spend even a single minute of their time on
> what amounts to this internacine warfare between
> two pieces of NJ beats me.

It can be answered in one word: WESTFIELD. 

Real estate interests, often disguised as Raritan Valley Rail Coalition, think he's their man and he's in Congress and to the extent they have to screw Montclair or South Amboy of their Manhattan train, eff them. Been watching them since the mid-1990's. Around 2001, I stopped taking them seriously. They are just too stupid. Former Mayor Jardim from there said when Governor Christie killed ARC publicly that "there is a special place in hell for Christie". Don't under-estimate the vitriol and obnoxion from that town. 

Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman co-signed his resolution. Her district was gerry mandered all the way up to Bound Brook and Plainfield. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/23 18:09 by joemvcnj.