Passenger Trains > A day with a single topic? Here is one about new LD equipment

I do not think I have seen a day on this site with just one comment before.  So I have to change that.

We all know that there is a need for better/newer LD train equipment.  Amtrak is, allegedly, working on the details of a LD equipment order.  This is good news.  

At the same time, I feel that, once again, Amtrak is reinventing things.  Why not just take the Viewliner model for the eastern trains and deploy that where clearnances are tight?  The cars delivered thus far are pretty good.  Add some coaches, more sleepers, food thingys, and go from there.  Similarly, let's do a modest redesign on Superliners, call it good and put in an order.

What am I missing?  (Puts on helmet...)

Chessie1963 Wrote:
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> Similarly, let's do a modest redesign on
> Superliners, call it good and put in an order.

is there currently a company that could do a modest redesign of the superliners?

personally, i wish the entire amtrak l.d. and regional system was single level...........

66

Unfortunately, its all politics behind the scenes.    You get support for funding, by getting money flowing in certain directions.

Even the straightest of arrows,  finds that u cant be 100% altruistic, and still have a job.    On the other end of the spectrum, there are those that think that being greedy and 100%  self interested is the way way politics  supposed to be .
Some ppl get into politics to serve, some  to serve themselves only.  

So everything ends up being a compromise at best.  Getting things done ecomonomically and sensibly doesnt seem to be in the cards these days. All the polarization doesnt help either....One side wanting to spend money like drunken soildiers, and the other wanting to spend nothing.

IMHO anyway,

Do the original blueprints and designs for the Superliners still exist? Who has rights/ownership to them? And could they be used, if in existence, to develop a redesign, modern Superliner?

Posted from iPhone

Amtrak is always looking for a rounder wheel than they already have, and will gladly pay exorbitant amounts to find one.

I don't know whether ADA considerations would drive changes beyond tweaks.  Beyond that,  I am skeptical that Amtrak management has any real interest in replacing the LD fleet rather than letting it simply become unmaintainable as part of a strategy to eliminate the service.  I very much hope I am wrong.

IINM, Bombardier bought the Superliner plans/specs from P-S.  As Bom. is now a component of Alstom, the latter should a. own and b,have the paperwork.   Bi-level sleepers will require multiple cars to have elevators.   leaving out the weight, they waste precious floor space.   The same holds for coaches.    We are likely to need either two diners on decent length LDTs or a rwin unit diner similar to what were operated by many preAmtrak RRs--typically a large kitchen and dorm space in one car, all tables in the other.   If AMT insists on a single car diner, it would max out at 42 dining spaces,   Even at  4 turns/45'  a single could feed 168--that'''s 4 42 seat coches with restrooms and ADA spaces.   The second diner will feed the sleeping car pax, and be able to have a take out window for riders wanting to eat snacks in thesightseer lounge.   In my view, that car is the one which should feature an upper level--think GN/ATSF/MILW full length dome cars with  an elevator.     Part of my reasoning is that the dome lounge can be swapped out if the elevator is broken--NO FIXED CONSISTS.   Also, the dome lounge should have the Conductor's office--clearly labeled and likely in the middle of the train. 

In mydreams, while these cars will be compatible w/low plarforms, I believe we should move to fully high plarforms even if that means gauntlet tracks at many locations.   Roll on/roll off is faster, easier for all concerned. 
I explicitly engourage constructive criticism.

Superliners are nothing more than experiential. They should order a new set of single level cars that can be used throughout the system.

> personally, i wish the entire amtrak l.d. and
> regional system was single level...........
>
> 66

so you know amtrak you want the cz to be a 6 car single train, what a bunch of crap, you know thats how they would run it

no way it would survive, thats what amtrak pres is counting on

A single level CZ could be two super domesat the center,  diners next fore and aft, 4-5 coaches and  5-6 sleepers plus a bad dorm.    Yes many more cars--clearly if a current coach attendant can service 84 pax in a superliner, s/he could take care of 40-50 in each of two coacehes, similarly current sleeping car attendant nominally 40-45 in a sleeper could take care of 24 each in 2 cars.  a simple extra cable or bluetooth linking the service call buttons of 2 cars to the attendant space in a pair of cars.   As others note, this is not rocket science.  It will however require improved consdistency perhaps an OBS chief.   The criticalies  are robust design, proper maintenance and a fleet of similarly better  locos so trains can stay in "slot."   The money is in theory there; the issue is a management who actually wants to succeed.

Viewliners were and probably still would be inordinately expensive to build.  Their construction bankrupted one railcar builder and resulted in delays and cost overruns for another. Their only "advantage" is that Amtrak owns the design, so "Not Invented Here" would not apply.

irhoghead Wrote:
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> Amtrak is always looking for a rounder wheel than
> they already have, and will gladly pay exorbitant
> amounts to find one.

That is because Amtrak is a quasi US Federal Government Corporation and as such any/all procurement of equipment are politically driven.

I don't see it as totally off the wall if Amtrak did use the Viewliner concept as a base for the LD train type. For single level - in a Viewliner concept - here's my take:

- Viewliner Bagg/Dorm
- Viewliner Sleeper - ALL Roomette
- Viewliner Sleeper.- ALL Bedroom
- Viewliner Sleeper - 50% Bedroom and 50% Roomette
- Viewliner Sleeper - Roomette (~33%) with Lounge/Observation (~67%) for Sleeper passengers (speciality touring section like Pacific Parlor Car)
- Viewliner Sleeper - Bedroom (~33%) with Handicap space (~67%)
- Viewliner Diner
- Viewliner Lounge/Observation Car - double row of windows with upper windows that wrap around
- VIewliner Cafe - with handicap coach seating
- LD Coach
- LD Coach
- LD Coach
- LD Coach 

Interesting comments.  Thanks for these.

Yes, a single design nationwide makes sense, and it takes away the issues in the Northeast with clearances for Superliners.

But the Superliners have great capacity and the views are terrific.  

I guess it depends on what Amtrak intends to sell.  In my view it is transportation first, and an experience second.  However, repeat business will depend on the experience as transport can happen in any number of ways in many cases (though not in small towns along the LD routes).  But if Amtrak "cheaps out" on the experience, new cars will be a failure.

Even the airlines understand that some passengers want a good experience, too.  So Jet Blue came out with Mint, which is more expensive than first class on most carriers, and is offered primarily on coast-to-coast routes...just as Superliners are focused on longer routes in the west.

Platforms at Salt Lake City and Denver only hold 12 or 13 cars plus locos. An all single level train with the same capacity as a 4 coach 3 sleeper Superliner train, would have to double over to fit.

Posted from Android

single level cars would be a step backwards, so much less productivity per axle, per 80 feet of space lesspassengers to spread the cost over be like going back to a VW

so, what kind of NEW l.d. passenger car could be ordered and delivered the most quickly?

single level or a 2 level "suplerliner" type l.d. passenger car?

66

goneon66 Wrote:
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> so, what kind of NEW l.d. passenger car could be
> ordered and delivered the most quickly?
>
> single level or a 2 level "suplerliner" type l.d.
> passenger car?
>
> 66

Well, Alstom is in the process of producing single level sleepers, diners, and lounge cars for Mexico!

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, its all politics behind the
> scenes.    You get support for funding, by
> getting money flowing in certain directions.
>
> Even the straightest of arrows,  finds that u
> cant be 100% altruistic, and still have a
> job.    On the other end of the spectrum, there
> are those that think that being greedy and 100% 
> self interested is the way way politics  supposed
> to be .
> Some ppl get into politics to serve, some  to
> serve themselves only.  
>
> So everything ends up being a compromise at
> best.  Getting things done ecomonomically and
> sensibly doesnt seem to be in the cards these
> days. All the polarization doesnt help
> either....One side wanting to spend money like
> drunken soildiers, and the other wanting to spend
> nothing.
>
> IMHO anyway,

That's why I ain't holding my breath, there's always something that either slows it down, or it just gets crappy like what happened with the recent Viewliner Order!

jp1822 Wrote:
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> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so, what kind of NEW l.d. passenger car could
> be
> > ordered and delivered the most quickly?
> >
> > single level or a 2 level "suplerliner" type
> l.d.
> > passenger car?
> >
> > 66
>
> Well, Alstom is in the process of producing single
> level sleepers, diners, and lounge cars for
> Mexico!

thanks for that info...........

66