Passenger Trains > Blunder in Altoona stabs PENNSYLVANIAN 43

Nearly an hour prior to 43's expected arrival at Altoona, PA, NS Harrisburg-Chicago intermodal 25G stopped,
due to a separation between its first two locomotives.  Rather than use the helper crew to pull 25G east to
clear Altoona crossovers so that 43 could access the station, 43 sat at Antis waiting while 25G's crew
conferred with the diesel specialists in Atlanta - plus there were other problems with 25G once hoses were
replaced between the units.  43 took a 1 hr 18  min delay.  Whatever happened to the practice of protecting 
the route of a 1st class train with a known station stop.  43  left Harrisburg 8 min LT and is now running over
2 hrs LT.  Before PSR, the PENNSYLVANIAN was one of the most dependable trains in  the east.  During the
month of August, train 42 arrived Harrisburg on or ahead of time 26.7% and 43 got to Pittsburgh on time or
ahd 2%.
Andy

Doesn't Amtrak earn a bonus from the commonwealth of Pennsylvania when 42/43 reach certain on time targets?

Problem is . . . all decisions are Mother May I decisions and nobody can find mother (or someone who admits to being mother).

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Problem is . . . all decisions are Mother May I
> decisions and nobody can find mother (or someone
> who admits to being mother).
>
> TAW

This!

CYA is the only show in town anymore, and Mother May I is off drunk at the bar.

Posted from iPhone

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Problem is . . . all decisions are Mother May I
> decisions and nobody can find mother (or someone
> who admits to being mother).
>
> TAW

Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner! Surprised at who it is? I'm not. Solid knowledge and experience and perspective speaking (er, writing) there.

^^^ Truth ^^^^. From all I hear, and read here on TO and elsewhere, it's so, so much the case on the railroad. Almost any Class One. And so true as well in many other industries. For whatever reason, capable managers who make good decisions quickly and decisively from a reservoir of knowledge, experience and wisdom acquired on the job is in very short supply in so many places.

I was lucky before I retired pre-pandemic that there were still good people who could and did do that in my firm, and in previous jobs. But I could see the erosion coming. The next generation coming up the ladder or out of new hires to fill those decisive roles were sorely lacking. Even though I wanted to continue working for a while, I was glad I got out when I did. Those folks were already starting to leak in, and it was not good.

I continue to have a lot of admiration for the folks like a number here on TO who are working railroaders in the operating ranks and who continue to do their jobs - and do them well - in the face of such a situation. Honor is due to them all for hanging in there. NS and others should have a few more diesels dedicated to them - plus plenty of other appreciation, too. It's much deserved.

MC

twropr Wrote:
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> Whatever happened to the practice of protecting 
> the route of a 1st class train with a known
> station stop. 

Those days are LONG gone.

Where is the blunder?

Posted from Android

When was Amtrak considered a First Class train?

There's not anyone at the Altoona shops that could have rectified this situation a bit more quickly and efficiently? Sad if so, as Altoona was the heart and soul of the PRR mechanical, repair, and building departments!

Even worse, there will be no consequences for this blunder.  I would have gotten my ass ripped sideways had I done this.  But now, who cares?  Everyone went on, collected their pay, and thought about other things.  No training, no respect, no clear policies, and things deteriorate further into sloppy operations.

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even worse, there will be no consequences for this
> blunder.  I would have gotten my ass ripped
> sideways had I done this.  But now, who cares? 
> Everyone went on, collected their pay, and thought
> about other things.  No training, no respect, no
> clear policies, and things deteriorate further
> into sloppy operations.

Correct. This is true in almost all aspects of life today.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's not anyone at the Altoona shops that could
> have rectified this situation a bit more quickly
> and efficiently? Sad if so, as Altoona was the
> heart and soul of the PRR mechanical, repair, and
> building departments!

Oh gee golly wilikers. PRR disappeared in 1968.

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
\ I would have gotten my ass ripped
> sideways had I done this.  

Yeah me too !!

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's not anyone at the Altoona shops that could have rectified this situation a bit m quickly and efficiently? Sad if so, as Altoona was the
> > heart and soul of the PRR mechanical, repair, and building departments!
>
> Oh gee golly wilikers. PRR disappeared in 1968.

There are plenty of guys in Altoona who could fix the situation.  Problem is that need to be told what to do from 13 guys up the food chain.  

Enginner to dispatcher:  Our power has separated.   Jaw Bone on the helper set says he can pull us by to clear for Amtrak.

Disp to Engr:   You say your power separated?  Let me check with power desk.

PAUSE:   Disp to Engr  You need to reassable the power.  That power is needed in Haarisburg for 64A

Engr to Disp:  But we are tieing up the main.  

Engr to Jaw Bone on Helper:  You might as well tie it down and go fishing.   These clowns down south don't have a clue



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/24 14:03 by Tominde.

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> longliveSP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jp1822 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There's not anyone at the Altoona shops that
> could have rectified this situation a bit
> m quickly and efficiently? Sad if so, as Altoona
> was the
> > > heart and soul of the PRR mechanical,
> repair, and building departments!
> >
> > Oh gee golly wilikers. PRR disappeared in 1968.
>
> There are plenty of guys in Altoona who could fix
> the situation.  Problem is that need to be told
> what to do from 13 guys up the food chain.  
>
> Enginner to dispatcher:  Our power has
> separated.   Jaw Bone on the helper set says he
> can pull us by to clear for Amtrak.
>
> Disp to Engr:   You say your power separated? 
> Let me check with power desk.
>
> PAUSE:   Disp to Engr  You need to reassable
> the power.  That power is needed in Haarisburg
> for 64A
>
> Engr to Disp:  But we are tieing up the
> main.  
>
> Engr to Jaw Bone on Helper:  You might as well
> tie it down and go fishing.   These clowns down
> south don't have a clue

I understand that completely. But then again, that is not what I was responding to, is it?

WAS being the operative word. 

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's not anyone at the Altoona shops that could
> have rectified this situation a bit more quickly
> and efficiently? Sad if so, as Altoona was the
> heart and soul of the PRR mechanical, repair, and
> building departments!

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tominde Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > longliveSP Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > jp1822 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > There's not anyone at the Altoona shops
> that
> > could have rectified this situation a bit
> > m quickly and efficiently? Sad if so, as
> Altoona
> > was the
> > > > heart and soul of the PRR mechanical,
> > repair, and building departments!
> > >
> > > Oh gee golly wilikers. PRR disappeared in
> 1968.
> >
> > There are plenty of guys in Altoona who could
> fix
> > the situation.  Problem is that need to be
> told
> > what to do from 13 guys up the food chain.  
> >
> > Enginner to dispatcher:  Our power has
> > separated.   Jaw Bone on the helper set says
> he
> > can pull us by to clear for Amtrak.
> >
> > Disp to Engr:   You say your power
> separated? 
> > Let me check with power desk.
> >
> > PAUSE:   Disp to Engr  You need to reassable
> > the power.  That power is needed in Haarisburg
> > for 64A
> >
> > Engr to Disp:  But we are tieing up the
> > main.  
> >
> > Engr to Jaw Bone on Helper:  You might as well
> > tie it down and go fishing.   These clowns
> down
> > south don't have a clue
>
> I understand that completely. But then again, that
> is not what I was responding to, is it?

NO, that's exactly what you were responding to - a disrespectful and needlessly arrogant comment. Altoona, PA has remained staffed (reduced yes) since the fall of the PRR, Penn Central and its transition to Conrail and Norfolk Southern. Tominde enunciated the logistics that present rail operations often get mired down in. But I know you knew that already......

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> longliveSP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tominde Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > longliveSP Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > jp1822 Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > There's not anyone at the Altoona shops
> > that
> > > could have rectified this situation a bit
> > > m quickly and efficiently? Sad if so, as
> > Altoona
> > > was the
> > > > > heart and soul of the PRR mechanical,
> > > repair, and building departments!
> > > >
> > > > Oh gee golly wilikers. PRR disappeared in
> > 1968.
> > >
> > > There are plenty of guys in Altoona who could
> > fix
> > > the situation.  Problem is that need to be
> > told
> > > what to do from 13 guys up the food
> chain.  
> > >
> > > Enginner to dispatcher:  Our power has
> > > separated.   Jaw Bone on the helper set
> says
> > he
> > > can pull us by to clear for Amtrak.
> > >
> > > Disp to Engr:   You say your power
> > separated? 
> > > Let me check with power desk.
> > >
> > > PAUSE:   Disp to Engr  You need to
> reassable
> > > the power.  That power is needed in
> Haarisburg
> > > for 64A
> > >
> > > Engr to Disp:  But we are tieing up the
> > > main.  
> > >
> > > Engr to Jaw Bone on Helper:  You might as
> well
> > > tie it down and go fishing.   These clowns
> > down
> > > south don't have a clue
> >
> > I understand that completely. But then again,
> that
> > is not what I was responding to, is it?
>
> NO, that's exactly what you were responding to - a
> disrespectful and needlessly arrogant comment.
> Altoona, PA has remained staffed (reduced yes)
> since the fall of the PRR, Penn Central and its
> transition to Conrail and Norfolk
> Southern. Tominde enunciated the logistics that
> present rail operations often get mired down in.
> But I know you knew that already......

And yes ladies and gentlemen, there he goes again attempting to obfuscate facts to suit his needs.

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yes ladies and gentlemen, there he goes again
> attempting to obfuscate facts to suit his needs.

=14pxNot even worth responding to such bewildered nonsense........

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> longliveSP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And yes ladies and gentlemen, there he goes
> again
> > attempting to obfuscate facts to suit his
> needs.
>
> =14pxNot even worth responding to such bewildered
> nonsense........

Is this not a response? And what actually is the blunder that started this thread?