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Date: 11/20/24 20:00
Viewliner issues
Author: fulham

Just returned from a Connecticut to Chicago round trip.

Took the Lake Shore from NYP to Chicago on Monday 11/11.  The 2 NY sleepers were both V-1's and I was in room 8 in one of them.  Typical LSL until I woke up Tuesday AM and discovered my floor was soaked!  I stepped outside and the hallway was also soaked.  It was just water, luckily, but all the toilets were out in the car.  The SCA was a young kid who I think was a bit overwhelmed.  He moved me to a different room that was dry and that was it other than some towels being put on the floor to soak up the water.  It seemed to be contained to the middle third of the car but I do not know what the other passengers in those rooms did.  No one from the train crew came by and informed us about the toilet issue.  In fact to me it seemed that the only person that knew of issue was the SCA.  I tried to call Amtrak once I got to Chicago but ended up being passed to Customer Relations where I was put on permahold.  I should have talked to an Amtrak passenger rep in Chicago to make sure the car did not go out Tuesday night on #48.  Who knows what happened to the car...was it fixed...is there a spare sleeper in Chicago...who knows.

Returned east, leaving Chicago on #41 Tuesday 11/19.  Was in a V-II sleeper and the ride was really good.  Everything worked, the crew and food were good and arrived DC on time.

Typical Amtrak trip...some bad some good.

My issue is why Amtrak continues to use V-I sleepers that are old and probably haven't been maintained as they possibly should, when new V-II's are in storage?  Doesn't make sense.  V-I's are nice sleepers...until one blows a pipe in the middle of the night. 

I am going to let Amtrak know what happened now that I am back.



Date: 11/21/24 04:56
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: robj

Yuk, water only?  Would not want to be in that car.

Bob



Date: 11/21/24 08:49
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: jp1822

The Viewliners have not aged well. Warrington basically never really had them on any service plan after they were delivered in 1996. Then Gunn got stock with a REAL MESS with the Viewliners - only like 15 were operable one winter out of a fleet of 50 and the cars were less than 10 years old. He was NOT happy and called them junk, said how Amtrak should have retro-fitted the Heritage Sleepers, etc. etc. But within SIX months had had the Viewliner fleet back up to a level of 50 active cars to be assigned, even a wreck-repair done on the two Viewliners that were wrecked in Hinesville, when Warrington was at the helm. BUT, he kinda put the rule in place to keep 20% of the Viewliner Sleepers in reserve. So only 39 to 41 Viewliner I's were ever put in active service, and the prototype Sleepers were withdrawn. Warrington was assigning out 48 Viewliner Sleepers and keeping only 4 in reserve/repair rotation - and two of the 4 were the Viewliner Prototype Sleepers. Usually they filled in on the Twilight Shoreliner! 

But now - as I explained in detail on another post, Amtrak has only 37 Viewliners assigned, while 38 Viewliners (just over 50%) remain PARKED, STORED, RESERVE, or otherwise. The shop margin should still be no greater than 20%. In reality it should be down to 15% considering the Viewliner II's are brand new and reason would suggest they would required less maintenance attention. Amtrak has a good number of Viewliner II Sleepers out here, but there's still WAY TOO MANY Viewliner sleepers no in "assignment." These cars can generate high end revenue, are expensive, are the newest sleepers that Amtrak has (and overall relative new in average age compared to other fleet of cars). Would NEVER happen in private business. It's been three years since height of COVID. Gunn had the Viewliner fleet completely overhauled in six months with many new mechanical parts and interiors refreshed with new carpet and seat cushions (Viewliner I's first major overhaul). That's also when the TV monitors were taken out. Can't help to think WHAT is going on that is causing this amount of delay.......It does get suspicious and allow the mind to wander. 



Date: 11/21/24 15:14
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: MEKoch

Amtrak has had this problem ALL of its existence.  They do not maintain equipment carefully and thoroughly.  It used to be that every four years a car got a heavy overhaul (in the two year cycle it was "refreshed.").  Are they doing that now?   Cars operating 900 miles per day are worked hard and need TLC!  

When I board a sleeping car, I always look under the seat.  Time after time I find trash.  No body cleans.  

In Chicago they had the old turbo shopt for heavy cleaning.  Is that building still being used?  If not, where does it happen?  



Date: 11/21/24 17:41
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: Chessie1963

This is all very interesting to me.  Happily, I have not encountered such conditions in my recent travels--other than filthy windows.  As you may know, I travel by train a lot, from regionals like the Vermonter to Acela and the Silver Services to the south.  Every now and again I get to Chicago and further west.  So far this year and last, everything has worked and been fine.  And the crews have been pretty much fantastic as well.  

I do agree that there are too many unrefreshed Viewliner Is out there, and not enough Viewliner IIs are moving around.  It is hard to believe that the Viewliner Is are approaching 30 years old!  Holy crap.

We are off to Savannah on Tuesday, back on the Saturday evening departure from Savannah.  I will offer a report on what we experience.  We have a bedroom in each direction with Acela first class between Boston and NYC.  I have not ridden Amtrak over Thanksgiving since I was in college in 1980 (Athens, Ohio to Richmond, IN), so I am interested to see how it is.  I do remember in 1980 that the Shenandoah had two extra coaches for the holidays.  Remembering that time, I exited the train in Athens one late evening in the summer of 1980 and there were two passengers left on the train as it headed toward WVA.  It was sad, but I figure they slept well!



 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/24 17:57 by Chessie1963.



Date: 11/21/24 17:49
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: ironmtn

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amtrak has had this problem ALL of its
> existence.  They do not maintain equipment
> carefully and thoroughly.  It used to be that
> every four years a car got a heavy overhaul (in
> the two year cycle it was "refreshed.").  Are
> they doing that now?   Cars operating 900 miles
> per day are worked hard and need TLC!  
>
> When I board a sleeping car, I always look under
> the seat.  Time after time I find trash.  No
> body cleans.  
>
> In Chicago they had the old turbo shopt for heavy
> cleaning.  Is that building still being used? 
> If not, where does it happen?  

Amtrak does have a formal overhaul cycle. Here is a snapshot from Amtrak's FY 24 - 29 Five Year Plan booklet, page 88.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/24 17:51 by ironmtn.




Date: 11/21/24 19:53
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: ST214

Yes, now that the Cap is gone and now a single level Florida train, there is supposed to be a spare sleeper in CHI. 

fulham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just returned from a Connecticut to Chicago round
> trip.
>
> Took the Lake Shore from NYP to Chicago on Monday
> 11/11.  The 2 NY sleepers were both V-1's and I
> was in room 8 in one of them.  Typical LSL until
> I woke up Tuesday AM and discovered my floor was
> soaked!  I stepped outside and the hallway was
> also soaked.  It was just water, luckily, but all
> the toilets were out in the car.  The SCA was a
> young kid who I think was a bit overwhelmed.  He
> moved me to a different room that was dry and that
> was it other than some towels being put on the
> floor to soak up the water.  It seemed to be
> contained to the middle third of the car but I do
> not know what the other passengers in those rooms
> did.  No one from the train crew came by and
> informed us about the toilet issue.  In fact to
> me it seemed that the only person that knew of
> issue was the SCA.  I tried to call Amtrak once I
> got to Chicago but ended up being passed to
> Customer Relations where I was put on permahold. 
> I should have talked to an Amtrak passenger rep in
> Chicago to make sure the car did not go out
> Tuesday night on #48.  Who knows what happened to
> the car...was it fixed...is there a spare sleeper
> in Chicago...who knows.
>
> Returned east, leaving Chicago on #41 Tuesday
> 11/19.  Was in a V-II sleeper and the ride was
> really good.  Everything worked, the crew and
> food were good and arrived DC on time.
>
> Typical Amtrak trip...some bad some good.
>
> My issue is why Amtrak continues to use V-I
> sleepers that are old and probably haven't been
> maintained as they possibly should, when new
> V-II's are in storage?  Doesn't make sense. 
> V-I's are nice sleepers...until one blows a pipe
> in the middle of the night. 
>
> I am going to let Amtrak know what happened now
> that I am back.



Date: 11/22/24 11:35
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: MILW16

Mark - the Level indicated in the blue headine does not match the Level in the text.  Is Amtrak that messed up that they can't keep their levels straight?  What is the source of the document?



Date: 11/22/24 12:31
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: Tominde

MILW16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark - the Level indicated in the blue headine does not match the Level in the text.  Is Amtrak
> that messed up that they can't keep their levels straight?  What is the source of the document?

The way I read it:  Level II  It gets a level I overhaul PLUS.........all that other stuff that comes after.



Date: 11/22/24 13:03
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: ironmtn

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MILW16 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Mark - the Level indicated in the blue
> headline does not match the Level in the text. 
> Is Amtrak
> > that messed up that they can't keep their
> levels straight?  What is the source of the
> document?
>
> The way I read it:  Level II  It gets a level I
> overhaul PLUS.........all that other stuff that
> comes after.

That information that I gave is a direct copy image (SnagIt screen capture from an Amtrak-published document), namely FY 24 - 29 Five Year Plan booklet, page 88, as cited above. The document is available at: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/businessplanning/Amtrak-Service-Asset-Line-Plans-FY24-29.pdf

Yes, the levels seem strange to me too. I have no idea if it is a typo or not. But that's what's in their own publicly-released document.

It would make more sense (at least to me) if Level III in the document were Level II instead (which is basically an upgrade, repair and refresh), and Level II would be Level III. Or if Level II were Level I.1 or I-A, an incremental, intermediate step between a thorough full servicing of all systems (Level I) and a complete, total rebuild - which should logically then be the highest level.

One more of a number of Amtrak mysteries that we all know and love (sarcasm alert!).

MC



Date: 11/23/24 10:17
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: MILW16

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MILW16 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mark - the Level indicated in the blue
> headine does not match the Level in the text. 
> Is Amtrak
> > that messed up that they can't keep their
> levels straight?  What is the source of the
> document?
>
> The way I read it:  Level II  It gets a level I
> overhaul PLUS.........all that other stuff that
> comes after.

Yes, that makes more sense.



Date: 11/23/24 10:22
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: jp1822

ironmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tominde Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MILW16 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Mark - the Level indicated in the blue
> > headline does not match the Level in the
> text. 
> > Is Amtrak
> > > that messed up that they can't keep their
> > levels straight?  What is the source of the
> > document?
> >
> > The way I read it:  Level II  It gets a level
> I
> > overhaul PLUS.........all that other stuff that
> > comes after.
>
> That information that I gave is a direct copy
> image (SnagIt screen capture from an
> Amtrak-published document), namely FY 24 - 29 Five
> Year Plan booklet, page 88, as cited above. The
> document is available at:
> https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom
> /english/public/documents/corporate/businessplanni
> ng/Amtrak-Service-Asset-Line-Plans-FY24-29.pdf
>
> Yes, the levels seem strange to me too. I have no
> idea if it is a typo or not. But that's what's in
> their own publicly-released document.
>
> It would make more sense (at least to me) if Level
> III in the document were Level II instead (which
> is basically an upgrade, repair and refresh), and
> Level II would be Level III. Or if Level II were
> Level I.1 or I-A, an incremental, intermediate
> step between a thorough full servicing of all
> systems (Level I) and a complete, total rebuild -
> which should logically then be the highest level.
>
> One more of a number of Amtrak mysteries that we
> all know and love (sarcasm alert!).
>
> MC

I wouldn't get too hung up on it, as they haven't been following this Level I, Level II, and Level III program very religiously at all - particularly in terms of new cushions and interior overhauls. 



Date: 11/23/24 11:33
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: ts1457

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Viewliners have not aged well. Warrington
> basically never really had them on any service
> plan after they were delivered in 1996. Then Gunn
> got stock with a REAL MESS with the Viewliners -
> only like 15 were operable one winter out of a
> fleet of 50 and the cars were less than 10 years
> old. He was NOT happy and called them junk

Structurally did Gunn have any issues, or were his concerns with possibly flimsy modular interiors?



Date: 11/23/24 21:29
Re: Viewliner issues
Author: jp1822

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Viewliners have not aged well. Warrington
> > basically never really had them on any service
> > plan after they were delivered in 1996. Then
> Gunn
> > got stock with a REAL MESS with the Viewliners
> -
> > only like 15 were operable one winter out of a
> > fleet of 50 and the cars were less than 10
> years
> > old. He was NOT happy and called them junk
>
> Structurally did Gunn have any issues, or were his
> concerns with possibly flimsy modular interiors?

Structural but also flimsy module interiors and that their overall infrastructure was inferior to that of the Heritage Sleepers. He was on record that Amtrak should have modified the Heritage sleepers than deal with the fragility ("junk") of the Viewliner Sleeper. At least Gunn kept up with their maintenance after the hand off from Warrington who ran them into the ground!.



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