Passenger Trains > Equipment issues lead to three Amtrak Hiawatha cancellations

Amtrak has cancelled one Hiawatha on Jan 6 after two other cancellations along the same route the previous Sunday. Thankfully they were able to find buses so passengers could still travel.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/equipment-issues-lead-to-three-amtrak-cancellations-on-chicago-milwaukee-route/

I wish I could define "Equipment Issue" in detail.

The only things I can think of is (guessing):

Charger Locos  -- snow getting in where it shouldn't be; or. frozen fuel; or computer failure
Coaches ---- frozen water pipes; malfunctioning steps on Venture coaches

What else could come under the vague term "Equipment Issue" ?

Those questions will all be fodder for the discussions between a rail advocate group and amtrak.

Perhaps a serious meeting with serious questions and serious answers so real solutions can be found.

Can't blame Covid for this.  Probably can't blame supply chain problems for it.  Can't blame the weather, it is January in Chicago
and even at amtrak that should be institutional knowledge.  

Problems must be identified and real solutions found and implemented.

Otherwise the rail advocate group should ask congress to pull the plug on the ENTIRE operation including the NEC.

amtrak would be more than happy to pull the plug on everything except the NEC. The NEC would provide enough hiding
spaces for all the weak managers.  That is why the threat must be against everything including the NEC.

 

What I don't understand  --- from a "railroad operating point of view" ---is why should basically new 
locomotives and new coaches,  have so many "Equipment Issues"

Maybe Amtrak should say -- "Cancelled due to "Equipment Issues",  because we
don't have have enough staff to maintain our equipment.

I don't know if this is the case -- but if it is --- Amtrak should say"
"Cancelled due to Cost Cutting"

ronald321 Wrote:
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> What I don't understand  --- from a "railroad
> operating point of view" ---is why should
> basically new 
> locomotives and new coaches,  have so many
> "Equipment Issues"
>

That is why a rail passenger association must FOIA the morning report or whatever they now call the document that details the 
previous day's delays. During my time at amtrak the morning report was the only thing they focused on.  They focused on yesterday's
problem while today went to hell. By focused, I mean looked for a scapegoat not a solution.

Then FOIA the MAP 1000's or whatever they now call the defect form that crews fill out.

We can only hope that Mr. Batory can hold some feet to the fire at HQ.

Okey-dokey.

Wasn't there some sort of heated train shed at Chicago Union Station?  Where out of three sets of equipment assigned to a service, one of them would thaw out while the other two did the job?

Or have I missed something here?

KurtBWNews Wrote:
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> Okey-dokey.
>
> Wasn't there some sort of heated train shed at
> Chicago Union Station?  Where out of three sets
> of equipment assigned to a service, one of them
> would thaw out while the other two did the job?
>
> Or have I missed something here?

CUS is not enclosed on the track level, along the river it’s 100% exposed to the elements.

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Otherwise the rail advocate group should ask
> congress to pull the plug on the ENTIRE operation
> including the NEC.

No and no again. I am appalled that someone as knowledgeable and experienced as you would suggest this. It just boggles the imagination.

> amtrak would be more than happy to pull the plug
> on everything except the NEC. The NEC would
> provide enough hiding
> spaces for all the weak managers.  That is why
> the threat must be against everything including
> the NEC.
>

No again. Throwing away everything outside the NEC would play right into their hands. I know that you know this, and I sure hope you're being sarcastic.

It is undoubtedly an uphill battle. And management right now is terrible. But are we really supposed to take away a growing ridership for state-supported services (up 15.8% overall in 2024) for a total of about 14.48 million passengers just because we're all in a lather again (yeah, sorry that we are) because of equipment failures and cancellations on these three trains? Or just trash and 8.3% increase in LD passengers to some 4.27 million passengers for the same reason? Source: https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/FY24-Year-End-Ridership-Fact-Sheet.pdf

I get it, and so do a lot of us, that Amtrak can be so lousy sometimes that we all just want to scream and run the other way. But please - find me a business anywhere for anything that is achieving growth in its customer base, even at more moderate rates, and which says "Nope it's not the way it should be. Too many things are wrong, we've got some sh*^ty equipment that keeps breaking down, and we have some yo-yos as managers. No point trying to fix it.  Time to just give up. Shut 'er all down tomorrow and walk away. Let 18 million customers take a hike. They can walk for all I care."

And that in essence is what you - and everyone else with that kind of "shut the whole damn thing down" attitude is saying. But I sure don't hear that kind of talk about the airline industry right now, which cancelled far more services during this storm than Amtrak did. And yeah, some of their reasons for doing so were lousy ones too. And airplanes break all the time - Siemens Chargers are not the only thing that does. I've sat on more than a few aircraft stranded at a gate or on a runway for hours on end while mechanics tried to fix stuff. You act as if Amtrak is the only thing that ever breaks down.

We all know by now that the Chargers are junk. It's was almost certainly a mistake to buy them, and Siemens and Cummins sold Amtrak, VIA and everyone else who bought them a bill of goods. We all know that Chicago Mechanical is lousy. We all know that management is weak, sometimes doesn't seem to know a train from a car or an airplane, can't tell a dirty window from a clean one and doesn't know how to wash them, and that the NEC is a money pit and ITCS signalling in Michigan can be buggy as heck. So whatcha gonna do? You do the hard work of fixing it. It's hard, it's slow, it's frustrating, it's thankless, and it's a sh&%tty job but someone's gotta do it. In other words, about like a lot of things in railroading and transportation businesses in general have been for a long time. It's just the way the business can be. And it's hard to get on top of it all, and harder still to stay on top. Because something is always gonna come along to bite you hard in the butt, guaranteed. You of all people know that. And for everyone else, how many railroad stories do you have to read to learn that?

Just because we don't want all of that we're just gonna throw away a valid transportation option for about 18 million people? Just because we don;t want to have to do the hard work of fixing it all?  Really?

No way. Absolutely no way.

MC

(PS There's a certain football coach for the Detroit Lions who could teach Amtrak and a lot of you naysayers a few things about commitment, hard work, determination and grit to get things done. Maybe you all should book him as a motivational speaker in the off-season. After the Lions finish a top-quality season - hopefully with a Super Bowl victory).
 

Frozen toilets led to 1340 being cancelled on Saturday. The train ran deadhead to Chicago. 342's venture set was turned as 329 and 332. This meant that there was no set for 336 in Milwaukee, so it was canned and run as a bus. This gave Chicago mechanical time to replace the 3 coaches overnight for an OT 1333 Sunday. And the night before all this, 1340 was late due to a bad switch near Dayton's Bluff. The hour late arrival into Chicago meant 341 was cancelled and run as on OT bus. See my previous post. 

Like I said in my previous post, 1333 and 1340 should be run separately and in addition to the Hiawatha. The Borealis is really dragging the one reliable Hiawatha trains down. 

sethamtrak Wrote:
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>The Borealis is really dragging the one
> reliable Hiawatha trains down. 

I remember the days you could your watch to the Hiawatha. When I used to ride it frequently (1994-2007) I remember us only being really late three times. One was mechanical though at least with that one they only were running the six trains still and had the third set so they just shuffled sets around at CUS, one was frozen switches and one was I think a stuck car on the tracks.

Posted from Android

50 years is not enough time to "fix" Amtrak ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Shut everything down, let the NE states for the NE corridor.
Give some subsidies to local bus companies to provide inter city service
The US is incapable of providing a intercity rail system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/25 17:27 by skidroe.

Sh@+ Henry,the wheels went from round to square, overnight!
Boss the wheels are square, the wheels are square. Can't run the trains with square wheels now can we!

JA

Posted from Android

skidroe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 50 years is not enough time to "fix" Amtrak
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
> ???????????????????
> Shut everything down, let the NE states for the NE corridor.
> Give some subsidies to local bus companies to provide inter city service
> The US is incapable of providing a intercity rail
> system.

Right-oh. I guess the 18 million non-NEC passengers were just ghosts. Or rode around on trackmobiles. Or in boxcars. Add another 14 million or so in the NEC. 32 million pax overall, give or take. If they weren't on an intercity passenger rail system, then what did they ride on and what did Amtrak sell them a ticket for? Rides on scooters? Skateboards? Rollerblades?

What you mean is the US is incapable of providing a high-quality intercity passenger rail. system. And there I and probably most everybody here on this forum would agree with you. We just do not know how to do it. If you travel in Europe in Switzerland, Italy or Austria right now particularly, and to a lesser extent elsewhere on the continent except maybe in Germany (which is a mess right now for many of the same reasons as Amtrak - mismanagement and poor funding will kill you anywhere) and the difference is very evident. Those systems are vastly superior. Amtrak is a pale imitator by comparison.

The real quibble that everyone here on TO has is with the quality of service. That includes me. But for some of us, if it's not top quality, we want nothing to do with it. We shoulda scrapped it all yesterday is their attitude.

My view is different. First and foremost, is there good basic transportation service being provided? And the answer is yes. 18 million non-NEC passengers got from A to B on the ground on an Amtrak intercity train last year. Almost always safely, usually reasonably on time, in pretty good comfort and cleanliness, with some degree (sometimes a good amount) of extras and amenities to make the trip more pleasant. In other words, all of the good basic service checkboxes were checked for the vast majority of those folks. And that's my Amtrak experience in thousands of miles of travel, literally from Amtrak's inception in 1971 - far, far more at least acceptable, often good, sometimes superb service. And many of those folks went to or from places with zero other public transportation options. Zero.

So, some say, because it's not perfect, because it doesn't meet our elevated standards from some Golden Age of the past (which really wasn't all that golden, and was pretty lousy in many cases, truth be told) we should just throw it all on the trash heap?

Remember the history that's too often forgotten. Amtrak started with hand-me-down equipment from private railroads which is most cases was in marginal shape - at best. Some of you may never have ridden on that old, inherited heritage equipment. I did, and with some exceptions, it was not a great experience. Amtrak redecorated and rebuilt those cars and engines, then modernized the fleet with Amfleet. Horizon and Superliner cars, and Acelas and Viewliners to replace it. Three generations of cars, with the fourth now arriving with the Ventures and Airos, and a fifth on the way with new LD cars in design. With the Siemens Chargers, Amtrak is now in its fifth full generation of motive power. Computerized reservations and a website replaced manual ticketing. Amenities like the Metropolitan Lounges and Business Class and the former Pacific Parlor Car were instituted. All of that represents steady, generational change. And with it passenger counts have about doubled from 16.6 million in FY 1972, its first full year, to some 32.8 million today for FY 2024.

All of that is not any kind of accomplishment? You think Amtrak hasn't done anything over its 50-plus years? That it's "broken", and is only worthy of the scrap heap? Give me a break.

Amtrak needs to be better. There are many things that need fixing. There have been some terrible decisions made of late, like buying the troublesome Siemens Charger diesels - whose frequent failures have caused serious scheduling unreliability. There are service elements that are just inexplicably dumb, like rock-hard, straight-back seats in Venture cars, sidelining rows of Viewliner sleepers at Hialeah, exorbitant sleeping car fares, and an inability to keep train exteriors washed and clean, among others. Some service support like Chicago Mechanical needs top to bottom overhaul. All of those things - and more - need to be changed and fixed. But because those things, important as they are, and many as they are (sadly)may be wrong, we should just shut it all down and take away a good, viable transportation option from 18 million passengers outside of the NEC?

You cannot possibly be serious. No way. Absolutely no way.

Some say the new administration and congress will kill Amtrak. We shall see. I sure as hell hope not, and will do my small part to keep it from happening. And instead of calling for Amtrak to be shut down, you too should be doing your part to keep it going, and to make it better.

MC

I think I wasn't clear in my original reply.

I thought the Chicago Union Station complex had some sort of maintenance shed which had been specifically designed to warm up trainsets from the midwest winter temperatures.

I am quite aware how cold CUS can get with the open train sheds, having walked through it in the dead of winter!

The triumvirate of Orange Donald, Muskrat and that Indian fella are looking to save $$$. What's the bet Amtrak is high on the list. Enjoy the trains while you can. 

KurtBWNews Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I wasn't clear in my original reply.
>
> I thought the Chicago Union Station complex had
> some sort of maintenance shed which had been
> specifically designed to warm up trainsets from
> the midwest winter temperatures.
>

You are quite correct.
There are two, long, enclosed tracks in the 14th St. coach yard.
They were provided for a comfortable work location for car service and inspection.
Of course neither are performed.
I have no idea what they are used for now.

One would think the toilets would use some kind of mixture that would not freeze.
One would also think, based on institutional knowledge gained since cars went electric,
equipment can't be left off power very long in cold weather.

On another matter for those who thought I was advocating pulling the plug on off corridor
trains only. I advocated the opposite. I suggested the non-existant rail passenger advocate organization
ask congress to shut the ENTIRE thing down. It is called playing hardball. Give us what we need or
you will not have your NEC plaything. That is why I stated the threat must be made against EVERYTHING
INCLUDING THE NEC.

I try to state things simply because I assume, like me, most people will not read long winded pieces.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/25 03:48 by Englewood.

If they are short locos and/or coaches, Chicago will go after the Hiawathas first. It is a easier to replace by buses than trains to Quincy, St Louis, and Carbondale. Senator Durbin also gets pissed when Quincy trains are cancelled repeatedly. 

Ahh, so.  Thank you for clarifying and amplifying.

Perhaps somewhat with access to the information can tell us what use those two enclosed tracks at CUS have these days?

Many commuter railroad layover locations have plug-in facilities to allow passenger cars to remain heated / cooled at night, and locomotive fluids kept warm.  Makes relations with the neighbors so much more pleasant and the trains more comfortable

Seriously, given how crappy SCAMTRAK maintenance and procurement has become, I bet if we put motor coach buses on hi-rail wheel sets, we could finally get a reliable service.