Passenger Trains > #40 Floridian (7/3) Canceled at Toledo

Why would westbound #40 Floridian be canceled at Toledo only 250 mi from its destination seemingly not due to mechanical problems?  Passengers then will be bused to Chicago.  Yes its 8  hours late in North Carolina now.  But will anyone connecting to western trains make their connection tomorrow by busing from Toledo?  Doesn't the train need proceed to Chicago to be turned for its return trip anyway? Unless they're going to send it back to MIA empty from Toledo! LOL

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It's happened before.  41 will likely originate in Toledo, with passengers bused to Toledo to attempt an on-time train, or closer to on-time than it would be by 40 going into Chicago, servicing the train, and originating 41 there.

Several years ago during an NS meltdown, it happened to me eastbound.  Unfortunately, a bus doing the local stops got lost and we were still several hours late leaving Toledo, although my bus ride was uneventful.

Jim

Back in the old days of the state and federal ICC etc commissions, the railroads would have been awash in fines for nonsense like this

I'll be reporting soon on the latest Floridian ridership figures
compared to 2019 (7 months through May)

I know the Floridian sucks as a time keeper -- but, I want to see
if ridership is still declining--or, if things have started to improve.

I think the train hit and killed someone in the DeLand, Florida area last night.  It may have been a freight train ahead of them, but the delay looks like it was Amtrak.  These accidents are becoming more problematic and are a sad concern and reality.  This would be the train set that left Miami yesterday, and is still south of Washington as of the time of this posting.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Back in the old days of the state and federal ICC
> etc commissions, the railroads would have been
> awash in fines for nonsense like this


never heard of anything like it?  you got any  recollections  or case law?

other trains were available, and other equipment often to build a  substitue train in many terminals





 

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2025/07/03/two-pierson-brothers-killed-by-train-as-they-drove-around-barriers/84457715007/

Train reportedly left Deland over an hour late.

98 seems to be having problems maintaining schedule through central  Florida.

John

DocJohn Wrote:
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> https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/loca
> l/volusia/2025/07/03/two-pierson-brothers-killed-b
> y-train-as-they-drove-around-barriers/84457715007/
>
>
> Train reportedly left Deland over an hour late.
>
> 98 seems to be having problems maintaining
> schedule through central  Florida.
>
> John

Is that because of CSX Quality dispatching or something else?

Crew point change at Toledo. So Amtrak train ops will terminate the train there, service it, turn it (specifics I don't know), and then hope to get to an ontime departure heading BACK to Miami to break the late cycle. Otherwise it's horrendously late out of Chicago heading back to Miami. It happens more than you would think...........

On paper, the train's schedule should work, but it's not having a good success rate at present. Passengers are missing connections at Chicago, and Pittsburgh passengers are getting CRUSHED. Absolutely crushed. That's a big interchange for Amish passengers, and the westbound/northbound Floridian is arriving in the wee hours of the morning leaving passengers in Pittsburgh to wait it out. And these are largely connecting passengers to/from the Pennsylvanian. Happens heading the other direction too. Floridian has to leave Chicago at a certain point to make the eastbound Pennsylvanian connection, which is also a roll of the dice.

The original plan was to have enough Viewliner II's ordered (sleeper and diner especially) to interchange cars between the Pennsylvanian and Capitol Limited at Pittsburgh, but that's in the wish list category. Boardman had planned for that in the Viewliner II order. At least if there was a Viewliner Sleeper, Diner, and coach(es) that interchanged at Pittsburgh, folks could stay onboard with hotelling power. But Norfolk Southern made that a bit more difficult with the removal of a switch at Pittsburgh after the Three Rivers was discontinued. Should have NEVER been discontinued, but that's a whole other story.

I know it would be longer, but passengers who would board the westbound Pennsylvanian to connect with the Floridian at Pittsburgh should consider taking a Keystone train to NYP and then the Lake Shore Limited to Chicago to at least ensure a better arrival time into Chicago.....When the Capitol Limited had its Superliner consist reduced, Amtrak actually showed that as a "routing" and it turns out they added a Viewliner Sleeper to the Lake Shore Limited consist for the summer. Course the Lake Shore Limited needs a third NYC sleeper line at least from May to October anyway. But instead Amtrak leaves prime earning Viewliner Sleepers in storage at Beech Grove. There are 29 Viewliner Sleepers still unassigned (stored, not assigned, shop rotation), representing 39% of the fleet. Even in this capacity shortage, overall, that Amtrak has. Ridiculous!!!   

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Back in the old days of the state and federal
> ICC
> > etc commissions, the railroads would have been
> > awash in fines for nonsense like this
>
>
> never heard of anything like it?  you got any 
> recollections  or case law?
>
> other trains were available, and other equipment
> often to build a  substitue train in many
> terminals
>
>
You are right.  In a time when adequate inventory of passenger equipment was available at many terminals and railroads often ran multiple sections of trains, simply annulling a train during a journey wasn't an alternative management would routinely consider.

I did some searching, and found that while the ICC had the legal power to fine railroads for poor customer service, it rarely did so.  It could, instead, issue notices to railroads etc without penalties for items like dirty or late trains.  However, failure to run the scheduled trains, manipulating fares or freight rates,improper rebates,  etc would often bring the full weight of regulation on the matter.

There are a few cases where individual complaints were sustained, including a 1950 case (Henderson v the United States) where a complaint by an African American passenger who received unequal treatment in the dining car of a Southern Railway was determined to be a violation of the Interstate Commerce Act.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> Crew point change at Toledo. So Amtrak train ops
> will terminate the train there, service it, turn
> it (specifics I don't know), and then hope to get
> to an ontime departure heading BACK to Miami to
> break the late cycle.

How does a train get serviced in Toledo when these crews are stationed in Chicago?   I'm referring to cleaning the train, restocking, etc.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crew point change at Toledo. So Amtrak train
> ops
> > will terminate the train there, service it,
> turn
> > it (specifics I don't know), and then hope to
> get
> > to an ontime departure heading BACK to Miami to
> > break the late cycle.
>
> How does a train get serviced in Toledo when these
> crews are stationed in Chicago?   I'm referring
> to cleaning the train, restocking, etc.

My guess is they'll send a ready crew with shoes via trucks to Toledo.

Posted from Android

Well, it's happening again today! Floridian Train #40(2) from Miami to Chicago will be terminated at Toledo on July 4th. Running over 10 hours late into Sandusky, OH. Passengers will be bussed to Chicago. Appears Floridian Train #41 (4) will also originate from Toledo. 

I actually caught that at Pittsburgh at 1020a. Unfortunately I couldn't get a very good photo :-(