Passenger Trains > A delay Amtrak should complain about

Looking at some of the ridiculous arguements on both sides of the CRESCENT delay case, I just heard one on LAKE SHORE #49 that should be the type of example Amtrak
to make its point that its trains are not being given reasonable preference when it makes sense.  CSX Symbol freight M383, which was let out ahead of #49 at Hoffmans (CP 169, where
the Selkirk Branch and Amtrak  tie into the Mohawk Sub.).  An experienced dispatcher would never let a freight carrying O-D cars out ahead of an passenger train unless he/she had
a place to tuck the freight away beforethe passenger got there.  What happened was that the NC Disp. routed #49 in the controlled siding (30 MPH) to get around 383  on TK 1 (there
were two eastbounds on TK 2).  NC should have ticked 383 in the siding so #49 could pass on TK 1 at a higher speed.  Fortunately #49 lost only 10 minutes; however, it's the
principal of preferring a slow freight over a normally fast passenger train that needs to be addressed.
Andy

If the freight train has haz-mat cargo in its consist, it may be prohibited from the siding.

If it was only a 10 min delay, let it go.  You gotta pick your battles, and not sweat the small stuff.

twropr Wrote:
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> Looking at some of the ridiculous arguements on
> both sides of the CRESCENT delay case, I just
> heard one on LAKE SHORE #49 that should be the
> type of example Amtrak
> to make its point that its trains are not being
> given reasonable preference when it makes sense. 
> CSX Symbol freight M383, which was let out ahead
> of #49 at Hoffmans (CP 169, where
> the Selkirk Branch and Amtrak  tie into the
> Mohawk Sub.).  An experienced dispatcher would
> never let a freight carrying O-D cars out ahead of
> an passenger train unless he/she had
> a place to tuck the freight away beforethe
> passenger got there.  What happened was that the
> NC Disp. routed #49 in the controlled siding (30
> MPH) to get around 383  on TK 1 (there
> were two eastbounds on TK 2).  NC should have
> ticked 383 in the siding so #49 could pass on TK 1
> at a higher speed.  Fortunately #49 lost only 10
> minutes; however, it's the
> principal of preferring a slow freight over a
> normally fast passenger train that needs to be
> addressed.
> Andy

What is an O-D car?

Andy...what controlled siding was used?

Many of these NYC-era sidings have been removed entirely & the majority of the remaining ones are out-of-service.

A reliable source did recently report that he was on Amtrak #63 on track 1 & they did pass an active WB freight in the siding at St.Johnsville.

Posted from Android

mbutte Wrote:
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> Andy...what controlled siding was used?
>
> Many of these NYC-era sidings have been removed
> entirely & the majority of the remaining ones are
> out-of-service.
>
> A reliable source did recently report that he was
> on Amtrak #63 on track 1 & they did pass an active
> WB freight in the siding at St.Johnsville.
>
> Posted from Android
Little Falls (CP 215-218).  O-D = overdimensional

twropr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looking at some of the ridiculous arguements on
> both sides of the CRESCENT delay case, I just
> heard one on LAKE SHORE #49 that should be the
> type of example Amtrak
> to make its point that its trains are not being
> given reasonable preference when it makes sense. 
> CSX Symbol freight M383, which was let out ahead
> of #49 at Hoffmans (CP 169, where
> the Selkirk Branch and Amtrak  tie into the
> Mohawk Sub.).  An experienced dispatcher would
> never let a freight carrying O-D cars out ahead of
> an passenger train unless he/she had
> a place to tuck the freight away beforethe
> passenger got there.  What happened was that the
> NC Disp. routed #49 in the controlled siding (30
> MPH) to get around 383  on TK 1 (there
> were two eastbounds on TK 2).  NC should have
> ticked 383 in the siding so #49 could pass on TK 1
> at a higher speed.  Fortunately #49 lost only 10
> minutes; however, it's the
> principal of preferring a slow freight over a
> normally fast passenger train that needs to be
> addressed.
> Andy

I hung out with a Baltimore area dispatcher about a decade ago and when CSX consolidated the jobs in Jacksonville it started an inevetable decline in quality that is likely in full swing. Specifically she could do road days to learn her territory (Keystone Sub), but that was impossible after the move to Jacksonville. Also, the reason to move to Jacksonville was to in part have a single pool of workers that could be easily shuffled around to deal with vacencies, the result is even less job specific knowledge.

The moral of the story is that I am not inclined to believe that CSX sent a memo to delay Amtrak, but having a less experianced dispatcher in the chair means they were focused on the High-Wide and didn't realize 49 was about to show up until they had already "stacked" the move on the dispatching system. At that point they'd have to potentially run time on the signal (easily 7 minutes) which is an observable admission of screwing up, or ding the Amtrak for 10 minutes and hope nobody notices. After all, Amtrak had schedule padding and can accelerate quickly.

For the record every minute of delay on Amtrak is tracked and accounted for. I can sometimes get the reports for the trains I am on and its always a bit embarassing when I was the cause of a delay (ie being out of position on the platform for my class of service).

Very interesting as the Little Falls siding has been one officially out-of-service!

mbrotzman Wrote:

> I hung out with a Baltimore area dispatcher about
> a decade ago and when CSX consolidated the jobs in
> Jacksonville it started an inevetable decline in
> quality that is likely in full swing. Specifically
> she could do road days to learn her territory
> (Keystone Sub), but that was impossible after the
> move to Jacksonville.


Recently road reviews have been available to anyone that has asked. 

>Also, the reason to move to
> Jacksonville was to in part have a single pool of
> workers that could be easily shuffled around to
> deal with vacencies, the result is even less job
> specific knowledge.

That might have been "the reason", but it isn't the case.   Dispatchers have been restricted to their division since the move, so a Chicago Division dispatcher could only work a Chicago Division job.  There were changes made at the beginning of this month to change some of that, but they really have not taken affect yet.

twropr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  NC should have
> ticked 383 in the siding so #49 could pass on TK 1
> at a higher speed.  F


Was the train a key train?  Gotta keep those out of the siding if the main is available per the rules.   I assume your "O-D" car is a high-wide, were there restrictions on the car going through the siding?

As usual your Monday Morning/ arm chair quarterbacking leaves out many details.  

What day did this 10 minute transgression supposedly occur? For what its worth, in the past month the median arrival for 49 into Chicago has been 8 minutes early. The last 5 arrivals for 49 have all been early or on time. 

48/49 are poster children for a reminder of why Amtrak shoud consider decoupling the Floridian train segments back to a Star/Cap arrangement at DC.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/25 09:56 by DJ-12.

A 10 minute delay? Oh brother I've heard worse delays than this!

Posted from Android

maybe better to have the fewest wheels diverge anyway

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> If the freight train has haz-mat cargo in its
> consist, it may be prohibited from the siding.

That or certain weight restrictions too!