Passenger Trains > Amtrak mp36-mp40-or mp54 style locomotives

hello all lets have a discussion!!!! please forgive my young ignorance (a saying i have grown comfortable saying as i am young and do not know everything) but is there a reason why Amtrak does not own any MP36 style locomotives? in MY opinion i think they aren't half bad looking locomotives and they would look even better in that phase 7 paint! i understand the mp36 locomotives are a horsepower down grade from the p42 locomotives but the mp54s could easily get it done and could pull 8 super liners on the California zephyr for example. Am i outside of any type of reality? maybe.....maybe not. lets talk. KEEP IT CALM its just a conversation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/25 15:22 by IDEAL_1.

Appearance of locomotives is a very low priority. Functionality, conformance to specifications, reliability, and price take precedence. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/25 15:21 by ctillnc.

Because they’re not good locomotives and heavy for their size. The P40/42 was the right choice at the time.

Isn't the builder of the MP36, Boise Locomotive, out of business? That could be a reason...

but what about now?
 

Seattle's Sound Transit has three MPs for its Sounder commuter train fleet. I understand they're OK now, but that they needed a whole lot of warranty work when they were new.

The MP36 is a functional descendant of a locomotive Amtrak already owned. 

Amtrak used to operate a massive fleet of EMD F40 locomotives (Which the Genesis replaced). The F40 was wildly popular on the market, many different operators bought them for commuter, regional, and log-distance service. EMD eventually designed the F59 and shifted their marketing and production to the new locomotive, though market demand for the F40 remained. Morrison-Knudsen bought rights to build F40 locomotives to satisfy remaining demand. Eventually MK was bought and rebranded to MPI, they designed a "new" locomotive, the MP36, primarily built with EMD parts. The MP36 isn't an exact replica of an F40, though they share a lot of similarities, especially with the later M-K F40. 

The MP36 also uses a lot of secondhand parts, which would be difficult to source for a large order. The engines, alternator, and other components are used. It made the locomotive a great bargain for commuters, though it wouldn't make sense for Amtrak in most uses. 

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't the builder of the MP36, Boise Locomotive,
> out of business? That could be a reason...

The successor company is Wabtec which is very much in business but they don't publicly advertise the MPXpress anymore.  EMD's F125 was the only other Tier 4 compliant passenger locomotive.

Is there any evidence that MK / MPI's version of the F40 was licensed from EMD?

As for the MP36 being filled with used parts that is utter nonsense so far as I know.  Not Metra's anyway.  As I recall the 645s came from GE with blocks sourced from Poland.  (I don't know if EMD was asked.)   The Blomberg B trucks that look like they came from scrapped EMDs?  New and slightly different dimensionally to accommodate the motors used.
 

You know you're getting up there when you see MP54 and the first thing that comes to mind is an old PRR EMU !

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any evidence that MK / MPI's version of
> the F40 was licensed from EMD?
>
> As for the MP36 being filled with used parts that
> is utter nonsense so far as I know.  Not Metra's
> anyway.  As I recall the 645s came from GE with
> blocks sourced from Poland.  (I don't know if EMD
> was asked.)   The Blomberg B trucks that look
> like they came from scrapped EMDs?  New and
> slightly different dimensionally to accommodate
> the motors used.
>  

From Metrolink's Fleet Management Plan:
In 2008 and 2009 SCRRA took delivery
of 15 MP36PH-3C locomotives built by
Motive Power Industries (MPI) in Boise,
Idaho. These are part of MPI’s popular MP
Express series of locomotives that operate
on over a dozen different regional rail-
roads in North America. Each locomotive
in the MP36PH-3C fleet is comprised of a
high percentage of remanufactured parts
including diesel engines, major electrical
components, rotating equipment, trucks, and
frames. The high portion of remanufactured
components made the MP Express series
popular because it kept the price down
while providing like-new components with
“new part” warranty protection.
The cabs, carbody, fuel tanks, control appa-
ratus, electronics, HEP package, and other
replaceable parts such as wheels, couplers,
and draft gear were new when delivered.
The engine is a modified EMD 3600hp
16-cylinder 645 EPA Tier 2-compliant diesel
driving a remanufactured EMD AR15 main
alternator. The units feature operating cabs
configured to meet current federal crash-
worthiness requirements, Automatic Engine
Start/Stop apparatus, exhaust silencers,
diesel oxidation catalysts and other charac-
teristics allowing the units run cleaner and
more efficiently than older locomotives.

From UtahRails:
To reduce overall manufacturing costs, all the UTA locomotives are equipped with remanufactured components:

• AR10CA5 main alternator
• EMD 16-645E3B engine
• Air compressor
• Blomberg trucks with remanufactured D78 traction motors
• New 2500 gallon fuel tanks
• The overall weight specification is 295,000 pounds

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/25 22:06 by Paniolo_man.

Metra stated all new.

These would have worked fine for Amtrak, but they are not Tier 4 compliant and can no longer be ordered.

Given who the EPA administrator is and how he has slashed all sorts of environmental regs, getting a waiver from Tier 4 to 3 ought to be child's play. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/25 05:32 by joemvcnj.

The tier compliance is the big one, and it's not only Amtrak that has been caught up in it.

What's interesting about tier compliance is the details, including 'how big are you' rules for when a shortline holding company is considered to be big enough to be regulated like a Class 1.  That's what got G&W in so much trouble with the lack of rebuilding records on some (but not all) of their stable of shortlines.

Yes, Tier IV now.  But if OP's question is more general as to why Amtrak never bought any, the notion that they could not get parts to build them whether all-new or with some recycled parts is absurd.  I don't know if they were ever considered.

I wonder if Wabtec ever considered continuing to offer these but fitted with a GE Tier IV prime mover.

Nicely composed explaination Paniolo_man for a newbie, or some of us not-so-new alike.  Well done!

IDEAL_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hello all lets have a discussion!!!! please
> forgive my young ignorance (a saying i have grown
> comfortable saying as i am young and do not know
> everything) but is there a reason why Amtrak does
> not own any MP36 style locomotives? in MY opinion
> i think they aren't half bad looking locomotives
> and they would look even better in that phase 7
> paint! i understand the mp36 locomotives are a
> horsepower down grade from the p42 locomotives but
> the mp54s could easily get it done and could pull
> 8 super liners on the California zephyr for
> example. Am i outside of any type of reality?
> maybe.....maybe not. lets talk. KEEP IT CALM its
> just a conversation.

Amtrak wasn't in need of any locomotives when the MP36PH-3X were in production between 2003 and 2013. The P42 and F59PHI orders had just completed and when the P42's began to age out the MP36/MP40 were out of production due to Tier IV.  

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given who the EPA administrator is and how he has
> slashed all sorts of environmental regs, getting a
> waiver from Tier 4 to 3 ought to be child's
> play. 

Republicans like slashing environmental regulations for fossil fuel companies but why would they go out of their way to help Amtrak when a decent chuck despise Amtrak and want it gone?

AmtrakMidwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Given who the EPA administrator is and how he
> has
> > slashed all sorts of environmental regs, getting
> a
> > waiver from Tier 4 to 3 ought to be child's
> > play. 
>
> Republicans like slashing environmental
> regulations for fossil fuel companies but why
> would they go out of their way to help Amtrak when
> a decent chuck despise Amtrak and want it gone?

Amtrak is evidently not a target and it would cut their capital costs.