Passenger Trains > More on the Thanksgiving Wolverine Debacle

https://www.fox17online.com/news/local-news/kzoo-bc/calhoun/107-passengers-safely-evacuated-from-stranded-amtrak-train-near-marshall\Wolverine 352, with 107 passengers, broke down at Marshall, about 13 miles east of Battle Creek. The crew spent several hours troubleshooting before it was determined the problem could not be fixed in the field. It took Wolverine 355 several hours to successfully couple to #352’s equipment - #355 had a number of malfunctions and did not leave Battle Creek until 4:15 am (7’42” LT). #354, which swaps crews there with #355 , did not leave Battle Creek until 4:36 am (7’01” LT). As a result of #354’s late arrival into Pontiac 7:53 am (6’52” LT), #351 on the 28th did not leave Pontiac until 9:42 am (3’59” LT). Due to #352 never getting to Pontiac, #353 on the 28th was cancelled
The only things we do not know are the locomotive number, and why it broke down.
Andy

Failure on multiple levels.  I will let others comment.

This is why I will never spend another dime on ATK.

-John

I assure you no one will be held responsible in any way.  Sort of guilt-free railroading.  The press release the local sheriff put out about their rescue would shame most management but for Amtrak, it is just another day.  If there were fewer pax, there would be fewer complaints.

ssarcadia Wrote:
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> I assure you no one will be held responsible in
> any way.  Sort of guilt-free railroading.  The
> press release the local sheriff put out about
> their rescue would shame most management but for
> Amtrak, it is just another day.  If there were
> fewer pax, there would be fewer complaints.

There will be fewer passengers. The debacles on this line just keep on coming. And that’s after our tax dollars gave them new locomotives, new coaches. And a completely rebuilt railroad. So much for ‘just give them more money, and everything will be great’.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/25 19:14 by alan2955.

I wonder what the state of Michigan thinks about the repeated service failures. 

Oh my!  This never happens on any other form of transportation in the US. Oh, wait -- on the same day a plane had to abort its takeoff and had people leave the aircraft in emergency (down the slides) on the tarmac and then wait for buses to take them back to the airport for a multiple hour delay before another aircraft could be found. Oh, wait -- all of the AirBus 320 line of planes (is the 3-- series of all transport modes cursed?) are grounded until an upgrade can be performed. And car crashes ... Oh, my ... all over the country., from Tesla failures to ill-maintained autos (didn't they know winter was coming?)



 

If an aircraft engine type had as many problems they would all be grounded.

Passengers taking every form of mass transportation experience horrific delays from time to time for reasons that the service provider should reasonably be expected to control.  TO members naturally focus on Amtrak horror stories, of which there is no shortage.  How does Amtrak compare to airlines?    Maybe there's a stat out there of carrier caused delays per passenger mile.  My guess is that Amtrak wouldn't shine in this category.

The fundamental problem lies with --

The people who care aren't in charge.

The people in charge don't care.

My subjective opinion is that all US common passenger carriers, whether it be bus, train, or plane, have made passenger service monumentally worse since September 11, 2001.

Englewood Wrote:
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> If an aircraft engine type had as many problems
> they would all be grounded.

There are potentially catastrophic problems with defective turbine wheels on Pratt and Whitney PW1100G-JM engines on Airbus A220, A320neo and A321neo but 75% of airlines which operate those aircraft ordered CFM engines.

However the Italian flag carrier ITA, a subsidiary of Lufthansa, ordered theirs with P&W engines and much of their fleet is laid up until backordered parts to fix the engines can be obtained.  Out of four A321neo...intended to be their long-distance high-density aircraft...three are out of service.  A substantial number of A220 and A320neo are also out of service, totallling about 1/4 of the affected models in their fleet.

So, it DOES happen.

The difference is that you DO NOT have to fly ITA (and ITA does have other aircraft, not affected) except for a few domestic routes (and on many, rail is a viable option).  Here, Amtrak has no rail competition outside commuter zones.

 

sethamtrak Wrote:
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> I wonder what the state of Michigan thinks about
> the repeated service failures. 

As a Michigan resident and user of these services who has had contacts in the past with state officials about service failures, I can say that they don't like them one bit. There is considerable concern about Amtrak's performance and reliability. And there is and has been compensation from Amtrak and manufacturers for past service failures. It is often claimed on this forum that there is no accountability, but that is not true. There is. And I am quite confident that there will be in this case too.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/25 21:07 by ironmtn.

After the Thursday Meltdown, orders came down from on high to put power on both ends for a Michigan trains thru the weekend.  NO EXCEPTIONS!

"Don't like it" , "concern", "compensation" - that's nice, but institutional vouchers hasn't fixed anything. It's been 8 years of this crap. MI, WI, and MO defer to feckless Illinois, and then they all go on with their track improvements with train reliability that would embarrass Penn Central.

Not holding my breath for them to fund and carry out retrofits such as sensors and slowing their RPM's, which was based on a desperate, feeble attempt by Siemens to boost horsepower, be low bidder, and with Amtrak's obsession with running 8 car trains with one loco.

I've had no plans to go to Michigan for 15 years (Grand Rapids NARP meeting), but today it would be Indian Trails out of Chicago or the Thruway bus out of Toledo. As far as I am concerned, Amtrak in Michigan has gone the way of Erie-Lackawanna across Ohio and Indiana - it doesn't exist.   



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/25 05:18 by joemvcnj.

ironmtn Wrote:
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> sethamtrak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder what the state of Michigan thinks
> about
> > the repeated service failures. 
>
> As a Michigan resident and user of these services
> who has had contacts in the past with state
> officials about service failures, I can say that
> they don't like them one bit. There is
> considerable concern about Amtrak's performance
> and reliability. And there is and has been
> compensation from Amtrak and manufacturers for
> past service failures. It is often claimed on this
> forum that there is no accountability, but that is
> not true. There is. And I am quite confident that
> there will be in this case too.
>
> MC

By no means am I saying this next sentence sarcastically - being completely serious, just looking for overall thoughts. Accountability - in this case - also needs to lead to corrective service, behavior, handling, performance, etc. It's not just admitting there's a problem, it's find a corrective action. "Houston we have problem." It seems that there is a better "emergency plan" in place should a train, for example, lose head-end power. Passengers get evacuated and placed in train stations or public structures that have heat. We saw that play out on one of the Wolverine trains. Going out on a limb here - and in general - the Amtrak Wolverine service needs to be more reliable in keeping to its schedule with less breakdowns/service disruptions and a comfortable/positive experience for its passengers. Hopefully through your advocacy and others, there's been a better spotlight on the service to help bring about accountability in the definition I put forth. And when there is a "problem" or "service disruption" there at least seems to be better protocol in place??? I can't answer to this, as I don't follow or ride the Wolverines - only occasionally between Nile, MI (alternative to South Bend) and Chicago.    

Power on both ends?

I wonder where they will find more operable locomotives?

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Power on both ends?
>
> I wonder where they will find more operable
> locomotives?

Who loses?

It's pretty much a zero sum game now.

Have you considered joining The  Michigan Association of Railroad Passengers? Go  to  map.org for ma ore information.  A member of our executive committee meets with MDOT-Rail division every other month.  I think you may be able to help us.

trainnut Wrote:
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> Have you considered joining The  Michigan
> Association of Railroad Passengers? Go  to 
> map.org for ma ore information.  A member of our
> executive committee meets with MDOT-Rail division
> every other month.  I think you may be able to
> help us.

Sounds like a good meeting to have! Sadly, a monthly meeting may be more appropriate. Would be nice if Amtrak sent a rep as well so as to have a three-way meet.......

In NJ, several counties saw organized commuter / rider groups from to lobby for better service.

Eventually there were 8-9 county groups pressuring the commissioners and the state for better accountability.

Posted from Android

Ever watch Cops when they are dragging a wife beater out of a house and she follows along hollering "don't take him away, I LOVE him!"

That. 

sethamtrak Wrote:
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> I wonder what the state of Michigan thinks about
> the repeated service failures.