Passenger Trains > What's going on with UP and Amtrak at Avondale, LA?

How will this improve operation of the SUNSET?
Union Pacific Railroad and Amtrak Reach Agreement on Track Usage in Louisiana for the Sunset Limited - Amtrak Media

Thanks
Andy

maybe a terminal piece of track that when BNSF got some SP track this tidbit was neglected in helping the sunset operate logically

I'm actually hoping that somebody, probably someone from the area who knows the geography, can elaborate on this change and what, if anything, that it signifies. It has certainly been amusing to read the PR statements on both sides. Amtrak: UP and NS have a strong commitment to quality Amtrak service. UP: Amtrak is a key industry partner. Yeah, right, that's why even Amtrak, which has been willing to put up with almost anything, felt the need to take both your a**es to court. Give me a break!

Possably allows using the x-SP and x-TP mains as paired track Avondale westward to Ama.

Thank you, I figured it would be something of that nature.

Wouldn't this likely have something to do with avoiding Amtrak opposition to a merger of two freight railroads that have often frustrated Amtrak?  I'll bet more deals will follow.  Whatever this problem was, it could have been solved anytime since UP reached New Orleans.  

Weii, that only took about 19 years.

On the other hand, I was very actively involved in renegotiation of the UP-Amtrak contract about 20 years ago.  I never heard from Amtrak about a New Orleans problem.  Don't know what this was.

Amtrak:  "Both Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern have shown a strong commitment to quality Amtrak passenger rail service,”

I expect to see more supportive messages from Amtrak in the near future.    The late evening Roanoke train has remained consistently on time to a few minutes late for months now.

There are both UP and BNSF routes for the relatively short distance between Live Oak and West Bridge Jct.  The BNSF route is indeed a legacy of the UP-SP merger.  The UP route has higher speed limits and allows easier moves to/from the West Bridge Jct.  A minor, but advertisable, improvement at best.

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are both UP and BNSF routes for the
> relatively short distance between Live Oak and
> West Bridge Jct.  The BNSF route is indeed a
> legacy of the UP-SP merger.  The UP route has
> higher speed limits and allows easier moves
> to/from the West Bridge Jct.  A minor, but
> advertisable, improvement at best.

The BNSF route is not a legacy of the UP-SP merger.  The BNSF route is the former T&P route which in not equipped with signals and has hand throw switches.  UP refused to sell BNSF the east 4.4 miles of the Avondale subdivision between Live Oak and West Bridge Jct.  As a result, the operating agreement between BNSF and Amtrak ends at Live Oak.  The route which the Sunset Limited will now use is the legacy Southern Pacific route which is equipped with automatic block signals.  

jmhemmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the other hand, I was very actively involved in
> renegotiation of the UP-Amtrak contract about 20
> years ago.  I never heard from Amtrak about a New
> Orleans problem.  Don't know what this was.

Please see the Bill Stephens article on this subject in Trains.com dated August 28, 2024.  The article may have also appeared in a subsequent print issue of TRAINS.  

RollinB Wrote:

"The BNSF route is not a legacy of the UP-SP merger."

I know you were directly involved in all of this and have first-hand knowledge, but.....

"Union Pacific had this to say in a September 2023 [STB] filing: 'Between West Bridge Jct. and Live Oak … the Sunset Limited moves over track BNSF acquired from Union Pacific in the Union Pacific/Southern Pacific merger. BNSF owns, operates, maintains, and dispatches this segment'."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/26 10:37 by TractiveEffort.

There are technically 3 routes the Sunset can take once it reaches West Bridge, 2 are UP and one is BNSF. The line in question the Sunset is going back to is ex-SP (now UP) Avondale Sub, which proceeds across the neck of West Bridge and runs on the south side of both yards, this is equipped with block signals and used to have a speed limit of 30mph before UP lowered it to restricted speed to save on maintenance costs. Looking at satellite imaging you can see this track south of both yards with only a switch into the intermdoal facility present. Up until April 1st, it depended on what track was clear on which railroad. The BNSF main is the old TP and is hand throw, whereas the other UP route is the Livonia Sub (also yard track and hand throw which runs on the north side of the yard). It's usually been running on the Livonia side up to Live Oak where it then swings onto the BNSF for the trip west. NOPB technically is in charge of the trackage over the Huey P. Long bridge, this has always been debated if UP or NOPB dispatches this segement. 

The process for #2 usually is as follows, on approach to Live Oak they call the yardmaster at Avondale asking for a route, and depending on which line is free #2 will be routed accordingly. At West Bridge they would again call for clearance over the Huey bridge, and once given they proceed to about the middle of the bridge where they then call home (Clara St tower) to ask for a route into the terminal. East Bridge control tower controls the maze of swithces on east end for the 1 mile run on CN to Southport Jct where #2 hits Amtrak rails into NOUPT. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/26 13:18 by SunsetLtd.

Does this have any real benefits for Amtrak?

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

sounds like it may seem it staying on signalled track, which is a goal of amtrak

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amtrak:  "Both Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern
> have shown a strong commitment to quality Amtrak
> passenger rail service,”
>
> I expect to see more supportive messages from
> Amtrak in the near future.    The late evening
> Roanoke train has remained consistently on time to
> a few minutes late for months now.

NS is still doing a terrible job handling Amtrak trains between Chicago and Toledo. And Detroit trains on the first leg out of Chicago that are on NS. Huge amounts of taxpayer of money were spent between Chicago and Porter Indiana to supposedly fix the bottle neck but the trains still get stabbed way too often.

Posted from iPhone

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RollinB Wrote:
>
> "The BNSF route is not a legacy of the UP-SP
> merger."
>
> I know you were directly involved in all of this
> and have first-hand knowledge, but.....
>
> "Union Pacific had this to say in a September 2023
> filing: 'Between West Bridge Jct. and Live Oak
> … the Sunset Limited moves over track BNSF
> acquired from Union Pacific in the Union
> Pacific/Southern Pacific merger. BNSF owns,
> operates, maintains, and dispatches this
> segment'."

That is a correct statement but incomplete. The track acquired by BNSF is a former T&P main track.  When UP refused to sell BNSF the former SP main track east of Live Oak, BNSF and Amtrak defined BNSF's Sunset Limited territory in the operating agreement as Iowa Jct. to Live Oak.  The Sunset Limited moved over BNSF track at Avondale because UP controlled both Live Oak and West Bridge and because, especially during the first few years of BNSF's operation in Avondale, BNSF train volume was light and its main track was usually clear.  By 2015 the Sunset Limited operation through the BNSF side of Avondale had begun to disrupt BNSF freight operations.  Trains were held out of Avondale in order to avoid delays to the Sunset Limited.  BNSF advised both Amtrak and UP that since Amtrak had no agreement with BNSF covering the operation of trains 1 and 2 through Avondale that the Sunset Limited should return to its legacy route on the former SP main track.  Despite this, the train continued to be routed through the BNSF side.  BNSF allowed this operation as a courtesy to Amtrak.  

Subsequent filings by both BNSF and UP in the Sunset Limited docket, EP 42175, define the dispute and the parties' positions.  This year BNSF notified both Amtrak and UP that effective April 1 Amtrak movements would only be handled as detours when requested by Amtrak between Live Oak and West Bridge Jct.  The press release by Amtrak does not indicate what consideration UP is receiving for agreeing to allow the Sunset Limited to return to its legacy SP route.