Passenger Trains > Flyer Operational Issues

Gene Poon's post yesterday on the 90 day termination notices going up for the Heartland Flyer's demise generated good discussions and responses on the philosophical issues regarding investment in passenger rail.  I am one who fully believes in the potential of passenger rail and it's value to a society that is maxed out on roads, automobile travel, and air traffic/airport congestion, as well as pollution and environmental issues.  My post today is for information on how operational challenges may be contributing to the challenges of the route.  (interesting that gasoline prices are near $4.00 per gallon today in my area)
1)  When the Flyer began in 1999 there where huge crowds lining the right of way in towns and communities the train served and passed through.  Ridership exceeded all expectations for the first 18 months, with many travelers making the trip just to ride.  Operating crews provided by Amtrak were really outstanding.  John Maldonado, George Hammond, and Larry Doyle took such pride in the job and the new service.  They greeted passengers, developed a friendly rapport, and always pointed out scenic and historic highlights along the way.  The men always made sure every customer was thanked and appreciated for the patronage and interest in the train.  This reality changed as these men retired in the mid-2000's.  Newer, younger crew members did not hold to the personable standards, and seemed indifferent and insulated from passengers.
2)  Lack of lounge seating.  The Superliner Cafe in the lower level of a Superliner coach has never been available for seating.  There are no tables, and the staff has required that customers return to their seats with purchases.  Some trips featured boxes of supplies in the seats.
3)  Limited consist.  Ex-Santa Fe High Level Coaches were used for the first two years of service in addition to the Superliner Cafe.  The train ran as many as three High Levels with the Cafe in order to handle the business, four cars.  When the High-Levels were phased out and sold, the consist has been limited to two or three cars.  
4)  Operating crews have gone out of their way to keep passengers away from them.  When a two car consist is used seating in the second car is only available when the main car, the Cafe, fills.  Operating crews like a private car with seats only used for Lower Level passengers.  When seats are needed, they are only used in the end of the car well away from the crew.  This looks bad, is obviously what it is, and makes the train seem crowded.  A crowded train is a success, but a crowded area when much of the train is empty sends a bad message.  A crowded train is a nussance to the staff.
5) Backwards seating.  Years ago the service to clean the train and turn the seats in Oklahoma City was terminated as a cost saving measure.  This means that half of the seats on the push pull operation operated in a backwards position.  Not a big deal to many, but to some it is. 
6)  Loss of cab-car capability.  Amtrak could not provide mechanically sound Cab Cars for the push pull-operation.  This has required two P-42 locomotives for a two or three car train, one on each end.  This is an operational cost increase for the service.
7)  The BNSF dispatching of the train has declined in the past 8 years.  Many trains operate late with long delays between Fort Worth and Gainsville, and some north as well.  Some days are fine, but many are not.
8)  After all they hype of an extension to Newton, KS to connect with trains three and four, including a test train that made the news, only a bus connection has ever been reality.  Due to the consistent lateness of train four, the connection from the west to the south at Newton was terminated years ago.  You can go north and east or west, but cannot get back from the west.
While many of these issues are common with Amtrak, they have contributed to this route's challenges.  They are not the problem, but they are contributing factors.  I used to ride twice or so a year, but lost interest confined to my seat with the declining level of service and operations.
 

Thanks for the detailed take down of the underlying factors.  So much depends on the interaction of the crew and passengers.  A friendly team can cover a myriad of problems.

I have heard the crews used to demand everyone line up outside for boarding, check their ID's, and gave hell to passengers whose luggage ID tag name or address did not match their personal ID.(Some people had a tag for their business address).

That is worse than customs. I hope that was just a nasty rumor, but if I experienced that, I'd take the bus, and let the train die. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/26 10:27 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have heard the crews used to demand everyone
> line up outside for boarding, check their ID's,
> and gave hell to passengers whose luggage ID tag
> name or address did not match their personal
> ID.(Some people had a tag for their business
> address).
>
> That is worse than customs. I hope that was just a
> nasty rumor, nut if I experienced that, I'd take
> the bus, and let the train die. 

Sadly, you are correct.  I had failed to include this item as my post was getting too long.

fire those crews

I'm sure this procedure isn't / wasn't company policy, but it does remind us that Amtrak's actual customer service is often out of conformity with its own customer service standards.  If you aren't constantly monitoring (complaint letters, mystery travelers, etc) what's happening on the trains and in the stations, you won't know anything.

I think we've established that Amtrak got rid of its line managers and supervisors years ago.

Also reminds me of security theatre of Port Huron US Customs I went through in July, 2001, before 9/11.
They killed the train. 

Oklahoma situation shows Amtrak cannot manage its operations and rules. Too bad Texas and Oklahoma can't hand the service over to T.R.E, run it with Northstar equipment, though not comfortable and no food service. When there is no will, there is no way,. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/26 11:15 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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. When there is no will, there is no
> way,. 

Amen!

There are few things feared more by politicians than an enraged citizenry.  If the people really want something, a legislative champion will rise up to try to make it happen.

My take away from this unfortunate discussion.

amtrak is unable to manage one train a day.
If the state(s) DOT do not provide a knowledgeable, dedicated manager that keeps amtrak on a VERY short leash
good money is thrown after bad.

Be thankful that the states did not fall into the trap of buying into a 110 mph corridor costing billions.
The service would be no better than your one slow train a day.

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My take away from this unfortunate discussion.
>
> amtrak is unable to manage one train a day.
> If the state(s) DOT do not provide a
> knowledgeable, dedicated manager that keeps amtrak
> on a VERY short leash
> good money is thrown after bad.
>

The Northern New England Rail Authority seems to be following that recipe with the Downeaster service. Keep Amtrak tightly monitored, contract out money losers like food and beverage, advertise as needed.

           Maybe we should fire the top guy in where ever the hell he hides in washington ??? and see if things change ( everywhere and in all crafts. If nothing gets better, start canning the heshest up supposedly overseeing the business in each of those crafts. After that why waste your time, close the entire mess down and invest what little money is left in some money markets or for Gods sake somehting that turns a profit. The unemployed Amtrak guys can go play trains BUT do not let them have anything full size.

Another Amtrak service will bite the dust this year due to lack of funding , poor treatment of passengers and late trains due to slow boarding which leads to dispatching delays = late trains . I remember having to stand in line out in the rainy weather on the platform to board in Norman, OK . Whatever happened to promptly boarding passengers and then checking their tickets on the train after the highball is given.  I'm just so tired of Amtrak's unfriendly ways. That trip on the Heartland Flyer in 2009 was my last.