Passenger Trains > Horizons on the move

Amtrak Empire Service train 281(30) with AMTK 103 113 46 facing East with 5 AMTK Horizon coaches each stenciled "Defective Car For Repair" ahead of the 5 car train 281 revenue consist was WB by QC-186 on the Mohawk Sub at approx 1425 ET Thursday 4/30/26. 

-"Charlie Railscan"

Encouraging but pitifully few of the several dozen pulled out of service due to poor
care and maintenance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/26 07:18 by GenePoon.

I saw photos of them on Amtrak Unlimited deadheading from Rensselaer to Niagara Falls on the front end of 281. They may have been the 5 that were in Downeaster service and been at Rensselaer all this time.

I read what were rumors that Alstom in Kanona, NY has already repaired 6 of them as penalty for being late with Next Gens. 

I can imagine them all headed to either the Borealis or Mardi Gras.

Rail passengr Association  should  be  up  to   date  on this.  Will ask!!  Freeing  up  Superliners  from   BOREALIS  would  be  a  big  deal. 

Have their been Horizons been released confirmed from Alstom that can be truly confirmed...........I'd stick these things on the Borealis ASAP to get the Superliner Coaches freed up for summer rush period! Putting them to the Mardi Gras service - wouldn't that still require a mix of Amfleet II's and Horizons? 

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have their been Horizons been released confirmed
> from Alstom that can be truly
> confirmed...........I'd stick these things on the
> Borealis ASAP to get the Superliner Coaches freed
> up for summer rush period! Putting them to the
> Mardi Gras service - wouldn't that still require a
> mix of Amfleet II's and Horizons? 

Mardi Gras has 4 Am-2 coaches, 1 Am-1 60 seat coach, and 3 Biz-cafe-Amdintte-1 assigned. 
Getting those 4 coaches would mean a 2nd coach on 448/449.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Have their been Horizons been released
> confirmed
> > from Alstom that can be truly
> > confirmed...........I'd stick these things on
> the
> > Borealis ASAP to get the Superliner Coaches
> freed
> > up for summer rush period! Putting them to the
> > Mardi Gras service - wouldn't that still require
> a
> > mix of Amfleet II's and Horizons? 
>
> Mardi Gras has 4 Am-2 coaches, 1 Am-1 60 seat
> coach, and 3 Biz-cafe-Amdintte-1 assigned. 
> Getting those 4 coaches would mean a 2nd coach on
> 448/449.


Aren't you guys getting wayyyyy ahead of yourselves?  Have any Horizons been released for service yet?

Don't forget the Cascades, the only corridor whose Amfleet trains are being held to only three cars, I suspect because Amtrak corporate thinks "People Don't Live There" or "Few People Live There). I admit the Borealis would probably be a higher priority for returned Horizons, though, as it would free up Superliners for long-distance trains. But then, would Amtrak just put even more Superliners on corridor trains? That seems like a valid question right now.

PHall Wrote:

> Aren't you guys getting wayyyyy ahead of
> yourselves?  Have any Horizons been released for
> service yet?

No, but they have been seen in motion with signs on them that they are to be repaired

Amtrak should place these cars where they will be maintained better which might be Seattle.  They need to be in a place where one maintenance shop is responsible for them.

NPRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't forget the Cascades, the only corridor whose
> Amfleet trains are being held to only three cars,
> I suspect because Amtrak corporate thinks "People
> Don't Live There" or "Few People Live There). I
> admit the Borealis would probably be a higher
> priority for returned Horizons, though, as it
> would free up Superliners for long-distance
> trains. But then, would Amtrak just put even more
> Superliners on corridor trains? That seems like a
> valid question right now.

amtrakbill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amtrak should place these cars where they will be
> maintained better which might be Seattle.  They
> need to be in a place where one maintenance shop
> is responsible for them.

There is less rock salt and winter issues in the PNW, so probably best sent there, and also away from Chicago Mechanical. On a car for car basis , send Amfleet-1 to the Borealis. There's your 2nd Seattle coach on 7 & 8. 

Maybe to avoid any salt. They should send the cars to LA.
We dont have to worry too much about road salt


joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> amtrakbill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amtrak should place these cars where they will
> be
> > maintained better which might be Seattle.
>  They
> > need to be in a place where one maintenance
> shop
> > is responsible for them.
>
> There is less rock salt and winter issues in the
> PNW, so probably best sent there, and also away
> from Chicago Mechanical. On a car for car basis ,
> send Amfleet-1 to the Borealis. There's your 2nd
> Seattle coach on 7 & 8. 

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

Has anybody thought about why structurally deficient cars are placed in the front of the consist??

Re: the Borealis: Supposedly at least one partner, the state of Minnesota, doesn't want the Horizons back because of their problems in the winter, and would like to keep the Superliners.

Steve55126 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re: the Borealis: Supposedly at least one partner,
> the state of Minnesota, doesn't want the Horizons
> back because of their problems in the winter, and
> would like to keep the Superliners.

Hmmm.......where do should we start - there's a lot of things "I don't want either" but I think that's as valid as what the "partner" of Minnesota is expressing.....

The Amfleets had a problem in the winter......with stuck and frozen doors because they were inline with "opening and closing." Not manual like the Horizon, Amfleet II, and Superliner coaches........

What were the specific problems of complaint for the Horizons?

In general, there's criticism highly possible on any Amtrak passenger equipment that would be provided for State DOT corridor service. Lets be real about this for a moment. The Superliners have their own issues with the narrow staircase and general boarding to get passengers to the second level. That's been noted as well for the Borealis.

Other than being single level, the Horizon cars should be somewhat similar to the Superliners - without the climb to the upper level where the high majority of passenger seats are......Moreover, Minnesota didn't specify Superliners for this corridor operation, nor were they offered it directly from Amtrak with the signing of the contract. The original contract for the start of the Borealis was with with Horizons........

When the Horizons were withdrawn, yes, Amtrak "tried" with Amfleet equipment, but the Amfleets were wrought with winter issues. Amtrak had an obligation to supply "alternate equipment." Maybe Minnesota DOT would like the North Star Minnesota commuter coaches, as they seemed to have no issue in operating them year-round (e.g. with winter weather). God only knows where they are or will go in service for Amtrak - and where. The North Star Coaches Amtrak is supposedly in contract to lease from the State of Minnesota.........Not sure of Minnesota DOT can really dictate the equipment Amtrak uses knowing they don't have their own stock of Venture coaches like other Midwest state consortium.

So they may not want the Horizons back, but they weren't in the initial offering of the operating contract for the Borealis. So I question the validity in literal form or contract form - other than an opinion or expression that Minnesota likes the "substituted" Superliners better. Superliners are more appropriate and in desperate need to fill gaps in capacity with the National LD system,.NOT the State corridor initiatives. Horizons were even specifically mentioned as the "passenger coach of choice" for the corridor expansion projects Amtrak and State DOT's pursued. Just saying!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/26 15:19 by jp1822.

All Amfleet won't work on the Borealis in the winter due to frozen door pockets. They were cancelling trains when even a sledge hammer to free the doors wouldn't work.
 
Best to keep the Horizons out of Chicago winter since Chicago Mechanical are the ones who neglected their corrosion for 20 years and caused them to be condemned in the first place.

Beyond puffing up PNW and Downeaster consists, and I read somewhere they are going to repair 16 Horizons into 2027, send 4 of them to the Mardi Gras and send its 4 Amfleet-2's to the Borealis, which needs 8 low level coaches, half Am-1 and half Am-2. A few Am-2's have train line cables for push pull.