Passenger Trains > United Loses Bid To Dismiss Lawsuit Over 'Windowless' Window seat

The ON TOPIC portion is at the end of the post.

Star Alliance carrier United Airlines will have to face a lawsuit that has come from passengers complaining after paying for a window seat, and once arriving at their allocated seat, discovering the seat had no windows. Per Reuters, the US District Judge has rejected United Airlines' defense that the window referred to the location of the seat, not that it had a window to view the outside.

Judge James Donato rejected United's bid to dismiss this lawsuit. It comes as similar proposed class action suits against both United and Delta Air Lines from August last year, following passenger complaints that they found themselves seated next to walls on the Boeing 737, Boeing 757, and Airbus A321.
United's Defense Is That It Never Contractually Promised A Window

United has stood by its belief that the window seat did not contractually promise the seat would be located with a physical airplane window, and referred to the location of the seat within the cabin. This is common on some aircraft, where select rows may not have a physical window to view outside.

The lawsuit has claimed that the airlines did not clearly disclose the missing windows to their passengers during the reservation and booking process. It can occur where some seats align with aircraft components such as air conditioning ducts, as reported by The Daily Record. As a result, the window itself may be absent.

United has refused to comment on the matter due to pending litigation. However, the airline has confirmed it has added additional detail to its process online, where customers now have more information on what to expect when selecting a seat.

A Million Passengers Per Carrier

The current lawsuit is seeking millions of dollars in damages from the claim, and has reportedly been brought forward by more than one million passengers per airline (alongside SkyTeam partner Delta). United has had its argument quashed by Judge Donato, who has expressed that the airline should be able to provide window seats if passengers have paid for them, and that following this, there is no more information needed at this stage for the breach claim to proceed.

Plaintiffs have argued that the individuals purchasing the window seat were doing so due to fear of flying, nausea from motion sickness, and for the entertainment of children on board, amongst more daylight or a view. Delta, which is facing a similar lawsuit, has continued to dismiss the claims in the New York Federal Court.

The carrier has allegedly been charging premiums for window seats that were positioned against blank walls. The claims seek millions for the misrepresented seat features and because the airline did not disclose the missing windows during the booking process.

United clearly believes the lawsuit has no merit.

For United, it must now face the lawsuit by passengers who have claimed that they paid extra money to be allocated a window seat, and following the discovery that there was no physical window, have taken it to the Federal Court for damages in the millions. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. The core definition of this claim centers on the definition of a window seat, and the charging of additional ancillary fees to be seated in a 'window' seat.

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This presumably does not affect Amtrak...On the ground, Amtrak does this, too. Once their new Acela-2 trains finally entered service after sitting for two years in Philadelphia after being delivered in unsatisfactory condition (and with leaking roofs), passengers who selected seats discovered that some "window" seats had no window. This is on a ground transport vehicle where there is actually something outside to see. Amtrak has yet to claim that much of the scenery is along the tawdry Northeast Corridor but has offered the feeble comment that many passengers have their noses buried in cellphones anyway.

Amtrak, however, does not charge more for "window" seats.  Don't read this. Amtrak, so you don't get any ideas.

The concept is called "truth in advertising". It is not hard, but is by greedy management and marketing people too stupid, lazy, or illiterate to read a CAD diagram. 

As an almighty United 1K (60 flights and 22,000 dollars or 28,000 dollars only per year), I have fallen victim to this before. For those of you who don't know, I am a captain at a charter company and fly around on 7 on, 7 off or 14 on and 14 off patterns. Work books tickets (often last minute) and those extra legroom seats are often last to go. The windowless window economy plus seats usually get taken 24 hours out to sometime before boarding. A lot of those folks either book those particular windowless seats to be disappointed on the plane or they get auto-assigned. As soon as work books my ticket, I go in and change seats referencing AeroLopa seat maps. I won't be a victim anymore!

https://www.aerolopa.com/ua



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/26 05:30 by sethamtrak.

Be aware of the increasing trend of folks in window seats to immediately close the shade so that they can better see their device. 

I do not know if there ever was a lawsuit, but Mopac's conversion of sleeping cars in the 1960s to coaches produced seats with no windows. And I know people who felt that was a pretty shabby thing. But generally if you didn't like it you grabbed the hat check and moved to another vacant seat.  Different story when you cannot seat yourself. And I have been on international flights when I was ordered to pull down the shade to allow folks to sleep during the day.

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be aware of the increasing trend of folks in
> window seats to immediately close the shade so
> that they can better see their device. 

That is absolutely true. I was on four flights last weekend and nearly every window on our flights were closed even on takeoff and landing.  Sitting on an aisle it felt weird being in a windowless tube.  We are rolling down the runway, engines screaming for take off, cabin bouncing around, and everyone is just looking at their phones with the shades closed. I think this has gotten worse as airlines have improved their onboard experience with free internet from Starlink. I am sure if Amtrak internet was better the same would happen on the trains too. If Amtrak had good Internet service they could put seats in the baggage cars and customers would be happy.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be aware of the increasing trend of folks in
> window seats to immediately close the shade so
> that they can better see their device. 

Seen plenty of that this year. I'm on side of United in a snarky way for that reason. Hope these people who want real windows aren't the clueless indoor tech dweebs who don't use the windows anyway.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The concept is called "truth in advertising".

That's old school thinking. I already gave that up - it helps when I consciously buy less things now - less consequences from lies.

sethamtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an almighty United 1K (60 flights and 22,000
> dollars or 28,000 dollars only per year), I have
> fallen victim to this before. For those of you who
> don't know, I am a captain at a charter company
> and fly around on 7 on, 7 off or 14 on and 14 off
> patterns. Work books tickets (often last minute)
> and those extra legroom seats are often last to
> go. 
>
> https://www.aerolopa.com/ua

Thanks for the seating web site recommendation. I usually choose seating in row 2, and on Monday's flight that was the first row on that side of the aircraft. Plenty of legroom, no under seat stowage. Worth a lawsuit, though, don't you think? The best I can do is boarding group 1 but half the aircraft has boarded before group 1 starts boarding. (Had 1K status one year and that was sweet.)  Most shades were down on our trip's four flights and no one was looking out a window. I think only people reading books (remember those?) raise the shades. 

webmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mbrotzman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Be aware of the increasing trend of folks in
> > window seats to immediately close the shade so
> > that they can better see their device. 
>
> That is absolutely true. I was on four flights
> last weekend and nearly every window on our
> flights were closed even on takeoff and landing. 
> Sitting on an aisle it felt weird being in a
> windowless tube.  We are rolling down the runway,
> engines screaming for take off, cabin bouncing
> around, and everyone is just looking at their
> phones with the shades closed. I think this has
> gotten worse as airlines have improved their
> onboard experience with free internet from
> Starlink. I am sure if Amtrak internet was better
> the same would happen on the trains too. If Amtrak
> had good Internet service they could put seats in
> the baggage cars and customers would be happy.


Many airlines in the hot Southwest pull the shades down while they're at the gate to help keep the plane cooler while they're on the ground.

some of the early jets had poor alignment with the windows,  i love trying to figure out where we are, of course flying across the pacific, and doing laps around the south pole wasn't as stimulating



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/26 11:19 by dan.

PHall Wrote:

>
>
> Many airlines in the hot Southwest pull the shades
> down while they're at the gate to help keep the
> plane cooler while they're on the ground.

Florida, too. The flight attendant will ask passengers to do this as they prepare to leave the aircraft.

I suppose Amtrak could use those windowless seating areas as part of a solo suite configuration if it wasn't allowed to sell those areas anymore. Or maybe just create a wheelchair space around it. Each ADA passenger would still have a window, plus the extra space they need for mobility devices.

On a Boeing 787, the crew can darken all the windows. They do it on overseas flights to give folks the imitation of "night." I fly the Denver-Narita non-stop quite a bit, and they always do this. So even if you book a wondow seat, you can't see out most of the time.  

symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a Boeing 787, the crew can darken all the
> windows. They do it on overseas flights to give
> folks the imitation of "night." I fly the
> Denver-Narita non-stop quite a bit, and they
> always do this. So even if you book a wondow seat,
> you can't see out most of the time.

Yeah, EDWs (Electronically Dimmable Windows) using electrochromism (Google-able terms for the curious).

On most flights, the buttons below the window can sometimes override that, but frowned upon by the flight attendants. There are other technolgies implemented on 787s to help in passenger comfort, but no real solutions to crying babies.

somewhere in my mind  i recall reading the first city trains had some polarizing adjustable , maybe green tint, via a hand crank on the windows, which were round---anyone?

NPRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose Amtrak could use those windowless
> seating areas as part of a solo suite
> configuration if it wasn't allowed to sell those
> areas anymore. Or maybe just create a wheelchair
> space around it. Each ADA passenger would still
> have a window, plus the extra space they need for
> mobility devices.

Why are there windowless area in the first place ?
I get the fat window pillars and poor coordination with seat pitch since everybody is too lazy to read CAD diagram, but then they are simply windows missing with large blank areas.
Alstom and Siemens took a car from Your-Up and would not so much as cut another window in the shell.
Amfleet has the issue mid-car since they used Metroliner rigging with provision for cabling up to the roof for pantographs. But what we have now is ridiculous.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/26 10:04 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are there windowless area in the first place

Because the airline scram people in like sardines &/cattle  don't care if the windows line up with the seats.

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Why are there windowless area in the first
> place
>
> Because the airline scram people in like sardines
> &/cattle  don't care if the windows line up with
> the seats.

At least the sardines are dead before they are crammed into their seats, er tin!

Bruce

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why are there windowless area in the first place
> ?
> I get the fat window pillars and poor coordination
> with seat pitch since everybody is too lazy to
> read CAD diagram, but then they are simply windows
> missing with large blank areas.
> Alstom and Siemens took a car from Your-Up and
> would not so much as cut another window in the
> shell.
> Amfleet has the issue mid-car since they used
> Metroliner rigging with provision for cabling up
> to the roof for pantographs. But what we have now
> is is ridiculous.  

In general the carbody shells were built to support a specific seat pitch and Amtrak's pitch is different (likely larger, which is good). This is simply an outcome of buying "off the shelf" same as the garbage horns and Scharfenberg couplers. 

Now I think there was a compounding issue with the windowless seats in first class (and possibly others). In the very early mockups and renderings there was a table at that location. Later Amtrak reduced the number of first class tables to increase first class capacity and because the table seats are not popular in Acela Classic First Class.

Amtrak's goal was a 20% increase in Acela capacity while still being able to use the same HST support facilites. Window alignment was not a primary requirement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/26 09:42 by mbrotzman.