Passenger Trains > 8/20 Trip on Cardinal/Zephyr New Amtrak Low for me

I recently completed a trip beginning 8/20 on the Cardinal and CA Zephyr from Cincinnati to Glenwood Springs. I've been riding Amtrak since its inception, and this was the most disappointing trip I've had to date. I paid $958 for roomettes on both trains. 

Cardinal: I guess I was fortunate that 51 ran at all that day because it had been cancelled for most trips the previous two weeks due to flooding in Indiana and then West Virginia. The floods had subsided, but it experienced its first 40 minute delay in Charlottesville due to being oversold and having only two coaches. Once it was out of its 'slot', it kept getting later due to freight traffic. It finally arrived over 2 hours late in Cincinnati at about 4:30 am. I didn't get much use of my roomette for sleeping and this train continues to have substandard dining despite the high premium paid for a roomette. We arrived in Chicago over 3 hours late, so I barely made my connection and missed my usual deep dish pizza at Beggar's near the station. SW Chief passengers were told the train wouldn't wait for them, so some likely missed their connection. We also had to walk by a long line of extra cars that had been added from Beech Grove. I don't understand why those can't be added to the rear of the train to shorten the walk for 51 arriving passengers, especially since its later arrival often causes tight connections.

CA Zephyr: I went directly to the boarding area to wait for 5 but the track number was not yet posted. I followed the line of people being led from the lounge and the track was finally posted after they had already filled the boarding area. I was in Car 530 and was greeted by my car attendant, who disappeared for most of my trip. At that time, I was looking forward to my flat iron steak since I had missed lunch (nothing was offered to sleeper passengers on 51 despite its late arrival). The train left on time, but shortly thereafter we received the bad news: there was no chef on the train so meal service would be altered. Evidently, management had been informed serveral weeks earlier that the chef would be on vacation, but no replacement was ever assigned. This meant a reduced menu, no salad appetizer (why no salad?), and of course no steak. The choices were only slightly better than frozen dinners and breakfast was ok. However, lunch choices were the COVID special 'flex' meals, which I despise. How hard would it be to provide burgers and salads, or even the chili topped baked potato? It is unacceptable for Amtrak to not have a chef on their premier train. Several passengers I met were traveling on Amtrak for the first time, so this was a great opporunity to attract new customers. Fortunately, the dining supervisor was great and was able to keep things under control despite disgruntled passengers and the mess she was given by Chicago operations management. The train ride itself was great and arrived on time in Denver. However, just prior to arriving at Fraser, the train hit a 70 yr old woman who probably jumped in front of the train. I didn't see a crossing in the area but there was a walking trail from condos nearby. I felt really bad for the crew who observed the incident, and understood the need for a 4 hour delay and crew change. These are acts of God that Amtrak can't control, but the delay resulted in my difficult choice to skip another bad dinner and wait until the late arrival in Glenwood Springs. Although my car appeared to have recently been refurbished, my brother was in 531 and it was much more bumpy and noisy.

Although I've taken 2-4 long distance trips each of the last several years, this is the last straw for me until there are clear management changes in Chicago. The Cardinal has also become too unreliable and expensive. If I take a train, it will not originate in Chicago. I plan to write to Amtrak to request a major refund of my roomette charges, and would appreciate suggestions regarding who to send it to to assure managemetn sees it. Previous emails to consumer affairs typically receive canned responses and unsatisfactory solutions. 

The really sad thing is that I've noticed more people taking trains to enjoy the experience, but Amtrak appears to be doing its 'worse' to drive them away. 

Cardinal13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently completed a trip beginning 8/20 on the
> Cardinal and CA Zephyr from Cincinnati to Glenwood
> Springs. I've been riding Amtrak since its
> inception, and this was the most disappointing
> trip I've had to date. I paid $958 for roomettes
> on both trains. 
>
> Cardinal: I guess I was fortunate that 51 ran at
> all that day because it had been cancelled for
> most trips the previous two weeks due to flooding
> in Indiana and then West Virginia. The floods had
> subsided, but it experienced its first 40 minute
> delay in Charlottesville due to being oversold and
> having only two coaches. Once it was out of its
> 'slot', it kept getting later due to freight
> traffic. It finally arrived over 2 hours late in
> Cincinnati at about 4:30 am. I didn't get much use
> of my roomette for sleeping and this train
> continues to have substandard dining despite the
> high premium paid for a roomette. We arrived in
> Chicago over 3 hours late, so I barely made my
> connection and missed my usual deep dish pizza at
> Beggar's near the station. SW Chief passengers
> were told the train wouldn't wait for them, so
> some likely missed their connection. We also had
> to walk by a long line of extra cars that had been
> added from Beech Grove. I don't understand why
> those can't be added to the rear of the train to
> shorten the walk for 51 arriving passengers,
> especially since its later arrival often causes
> tight connections.
>
> CA Zephyr: I went directly to the boarding area to
> wait for 5 but the track number was not yet
> posted. I followed the line of people being led
> from the lounge and the track was finally posted
> after they had already filled the boarding area. I
> was in Car 530 and was greeted by my car
> attendant, who disappeared for most of my trip. At
> that time, I was looking forward to my flat iron
> steak since I had missed lunch (nothing was
> offered to sleeper passengers on 51 despite its
> late arrival). The train left on time, but shortly
> thereafter we received the bad news: there was no
> chef on the train so meal service would be
> altered. Evidently, management had been informed
> serveral weeks earlier that the chef would be on
> vacation, but no replacement was ever assigned.
> This meant a reduced menu, no salad appetizer (why
> no salad?), and of course no steak. The choices
> were only slightly better than frozen dinners and
> breakfast was ok. However, lunch choices were the
> COVID special 'flex' meals, which I despise. How
> hard would it be to provide burgers and salads, or
> even the chili topped baked potato? It is
> unacceptable for Amtrak to not have a chef on
> their premier train. Several passengers I met were
> traveling on Amtrak for the first time, so this
> was a great opporunity to attract new customers.
> Fortunately, the dining supervisor was great and
> was able to keep things under control despite
> disgruntled passengers and the mess she was given
> by Chicago operations management. The train ride
> itself was great and arrived on time in Denver.
> However, just prior to arriving at Fraser, the
> train hit a 70 yr old woman who probably jumped in
> front of the train. I didn't see a crossing in the
> area but there was a walking trail from condos
> nearby. I felt really bad for the crew who
> observed the incident, and understood the need for
> a 4 hour delay and crew change. These are acts of
> God that Amtrak can't control, but the delay
> resulted in my difficult choice to skip another
> bad dinner and wait until the late arrival in
> Glenwood Springs. Although my car appeared to have
> recently been refurbished, my brother was in 531
> and it was much more bumpy and noisy.
>
> Although I've taken 2-4 long distance trips each
> of the last several years, this is the last straw
> for me until there are clear management changes in
> Chicago. The Cardinal has also become too
> unreliable and expensive. If I take a train, it
> will not originate in Chicago. I plan to write to
> Amtrak to request a major refund of my roomette
> charges, and would appreciate suggestions
> regarding who to send it to to assure managemetn
> sees it. Previous emails to consumer affairs
> typically receive canned responses and
> unsatisfactory solutions. 
>
> The really sad thing is that I've noticed more
> people taking trains to enjoy the experience, but
> Amtrak appears to be doing its 'worse' to drive
> them away. 

If only the Auto Train went where you needed to go.....it still may be late once in a while...but I think you get treated a little better. 

Not filling a known vacancy due to a planned vacation sounds like pure incompetence.

Heads should roll, but the scheduler will prob get a bonus for cutting costs.

Posted from Android

Sorry to see this trip report and your bad experience. It is so hit and miss (e.g. inconsistent) with Amtrak. Your three hour lateness would have put the Cardinal into Chicago around 1 pm or so. I don't understand why Amtrak make provisions for a short and abbreviated lunch from say 11 to 12 noon for sleeping car passengers paying such a premium knowing they will be late. The Cardinal continues to operate with inadequate capacity. I'm happy to see they've assigned it a Viewliner bagg-dorm to help create additional sleeping car space, but it really needs TWO full Viewliner Sleepers, a Viewliner Diner (even if a sleeper/lounge and all food service is out of the single Amfleet Diner Lite car), plus an ADDITIONAL Amfleet II Coach, MOST importantly. This train has been starved of adequate capacity for years and yearns for a "Touring Class" experience with the great scenery it takes in on its meandering journey (with multiple markets served) between NYP and Chicago. This train could have SO MUCH more potential and opportunity if Amtrak wanted to exercise it. But instead Amtrak embraces less than acceptable capacity and amenities (that could be upcharged) on this train.

Brian Rosenwald had a plan to create a special "Touring Class" for those looking for more than "basic transportation" yet with an upcharge fee to go with it (think short domes and better amenities onboard as put forth in the 2008 LD Train improvement plans). This is the perfect route that could absorb this. And now with the Floridian, Lake Shore, and Cardinal operating with Viewliner equipment into Chicago, just cut the darn terminus back to Washington DC and re-time the train. Get it off the NEC and the cost allocations it would be afforded to operate on the NEC - as a corridor train to boot! There's MAJOR turnover between NYP and Washington DC. RESTORE it as a LD passenger train from Washington DC to Chicago. Having it operate on the NEC is SO detrimental to the financial reporting of this train. It will ALWAYS show a huge loss with NEC costs allocated to it in Amtrak's cost accounting. Chicago is now an alternate hub with the addition of the Floridian to shuttle cars to/from Hialeah. This is the main reason why the terminus of the Cardinal is NYP.

A three-day a week train with just two Amfleet II coaches is atrocious and will never increase the revenue of this train. Your point with "over-sold coach" proves this. Charlottesville is a MAJOR destination for this train. And to be charged the roomette charge you were charged from Cincy to Chicago is an absolute rip-off. That's more than the price of what it is for NYP to Chicago on the Lake Shore Limited. But supply and demand economics allows Amtrak to "charge that price." The train should be carrying TWO Viewliner Sleepers, as it did during at least peak season, with a Viewliner Diner in tow - for at least lounge service on this spectacularly scenic route of the East. Again, Amtrak misses THAT opportunity it could cash in!!!!

No chef on the CA Zephyr...........well that's a unique situation...........Who did Amtrak find to make the half baked meals that they did serve (flex meals and all)? Was it a general LSA (cafe attendant)? I have to wonder if this is part of a larger problem Amtrak has with staffing out of Chicago when they sorely shifted the crew base of the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago. Wrong MOVE! The Seattle crew base for the Empire Builder was a GREAT staff who made a great experience for passengers and typically had more passion in their jobs than the Chicago crews its got now. Amtrak expected the OBS staff to move to Chicago and they didn't for the most part. I was aboard earlier this year when this shift was to take affect and my sleeping car attendant and the dining crews I spoke with had "alternate plans" than going to Chicago.......Amtrak should have allowed sleeping car passengers to take meals in the Sightseer Lounge's Cafe if they wanted to - would have likely been better than the flex meals. And this "downgrade" in what is regular/normal food service on the CA Zephyr - THAT should be reimbursed BACK to passengers. 

And yes the CA Zephyr is likely Amtrak's most scenic western train that deserves some sort of premium "Touring Class." And Amtrak can charge for that and people would pay it if they knew they were getting some special and upgraded amenities. Gunn had proposed - for the summer - to take the Superliner Deluxe Sleepers OFF the Auto Train and put them on the CA Zephyr. I think that would have been able to garner a higher premium revenue for the CA Zephyr and you could have built an upcharge "product" by doing that - seasonally. The Pacific Parlor Car on the Coast Starlight was great. Amtrak is short on equipment right now - I get it. But the Superliner Sightseer Lounge - even with three Superliners operating on the CA Zephyr in the summer taxes that car to death with overcrowding. Amtrak is short-sighted to at LEAST not add some sort of extra "lounge car" of some sort for sleeper car passengers from Denver to Salt Lake City. Even a Superliner Cross Country Cafe could work. Amtrak should have two that could be tossed around between trains #5 and #6 to make this happen, especially after the Capitol Limited gave up its Superliners and went to single level equipment. 

Amtrak needs to examine the products and classes it offers on LD trains, figure out HOW they can get consistency in the products and classes being offered, and where it can apply some "stretch" or elasticity to offer upcharge opportunities with what equipment they have (yes I know equipment is super tight right now). Claytor's SOP was that you MUST grow revenues, not cut expenses and consists to achieve better/favorable financials. 

All this causes me to take pause that Amtrak's new plans for single level LD trains is inadequate when it comes to "lounge" space. Yes, there should be basic coach and sleeper transportation, but Amtrak could have more people flocking to its trains if it could offer a slightly consistent and upgraded amenity experience - that it charges for. I am not saying AT ALL to create the Rocky Mountaineer or even the VIA Prestige Class, but the smallest improvements and amenities to a product line could really make a difference to the heavier travelled LD trains like the CA Zephyr, Empire Builder, Coast Starlight, and Southwest Chief - likely in that order. 

Imagination and creativity to bring in more revenue is lacking at Amtrak. It's more about status quo and cutting their way to try and achieve greater financial results. THAT does NOT work, as has been proven over and over again with LD trains.......  

 

Brian Rosenwald was a friend and the greatest Amtrak staffer ever. 

I'd suggest rereading the Three Days of Boxed Lunches thread from about two weeks ago.  
There really is nothing new under the sun!

I wonder if part of the problem is a lack of qualified dining car chefs?  Amtrak has advertised for experienced chefs in the recent past, which suggests their chef "extra board" may be as thin as some of their other area

Being a chef is a tough job, but being on a hamster wheel of late trains, minimal rest, and back to work must be another layer of hardship.  And, unlike a good restaurant sous chef, a dining car chef has limited upward mobility. And not much help (dishwasher, cooks, fry guys, etc) Doing the same stuff for 30 more years isn't particularly appetizing

I've noticed a few passenger complaints on Amtrak's Facebook page.  Maybe that's a strategy for getting a response,  though it's not as if Amtrak decision  makers care any way.  

Cardinal13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently completed a trip beginning 8/20 on the
> Cardinal and CA Zephyr from Cincinnati to Glenwood
> Springs. I've been riding Amtrak since its
> inception, and this was the most disappointing
> trip I've had to date. I paid $958 for roomettes
> on both trains. 
>
$958 total or $958 for each leg?  If that former that's a pretty good price seeing as the bargain bucket from EMY to DEN is $560 and EMY to CHI is starts in the 800's. 


> Cardinal: I guess I was fortunate that 51 ran at
> all that day because it had been cancelled for
> most trips the previous two weeks due to flooding
> in Indiana and then West Virginia. The floods had
> subsided, but it experienced its first 40 minute
> delay in Charlottesville due to being oversold and
> having only two coaches. Once it was out of its
> 'slot', it kept getting later due to freight
> traffic. It finally arrived over 2 hours late in
> Cincinnati at about 4:30 am. I didn't get much use
> of my roomette for sleeping and this train
> continues to have substandard dining despite the
> high premium paid for a roomette. We arrived in
> Chicago over 3 hours late, so I barely made my
> connection and missed my usual deep dish pizza at
> Beggar's near the station.

You know what the Cardinal is, what it offers and that 4 hour delays happen. The solution is to not book a same day connection in Chicago or accept the fact you might have to get rebooked to the next day (and risk going in coach). If $958 was your fare from Cincinatti to EMY, stressing on the connection is part of the preferential fare. The thing is that if you take that day in Chicago, the later 51 is getting to you, the more of the route you get in daylight. That turns an otherwise stressful situation into one where the delay actually benefits you! Regarding sleep I had a fun strategy staying up for the 4am train then being able to sleep like a rock, but missing breakfast on 51 would be an issue.

> SW Chief passengers
> were told the train wouldn't wait for them, so
> some likely missed their connection. We also had
> to walk by a long line of extra cars that had been
> added from Beech Grove. I don't understand why
> those can't be added to the rear of the train to
> shorten the walk for 51 arriving passengers,
> especially since its later arrival often causes
> tight connections.
>

The shuttle equipment arrives at Indy and waits on 51 to couple up. It's the fastest way to perform the operation and saves more time than having passengers walk a few hundred extra feet.

>
> Although I've taken 2-4 long distance trips each
> of the last several years, this is the last straw
> for me until there are clear management changes in
> Chicago.

If you take that many LD trips you should know a tight connection, pedestrian strike and sub-par food if fully within the realm of expected misfortune. If this hasn't ever happened to you before you should consider yourself blessed. Yeah, Amtrak is a bit of a dice roll, but you should know that going in. When you roll the dice its not the casino's fault when you get snake eyes. 

> The Cardinal has also become too
> unreliable and expensive. If I take a train, it
> will not originate in Chicago. I plan to write to
> Amtrak to request a major refund of my roomette
> charges, and would appreciate suggestions
> regarding who to send it to to assure managemetn
> sees it. Previous emails to consumer affairs
> typically receive canned responses and
> unsatisfactory solutions. 

You're seriously going to demand a full roomette refuld because you got lower tier food? Hey, go nuts, but the less reasonable you act the easier it will be for Amtrak to dismiss you as a crank and move on to better customers. There are more effective places to send complaints than others, someone else here probably knows them. I'd expect you to get a couple hundred $ in travel credit for the food issue if you act like a valueable customer and not a crank.

>
> The really sad thing is that I've noticed more
> people taking trains to enjoy the experience, but
> Amtrak appears to be doing its 'worse' to drive
> them away. 

Yeah, a lot of trains these days are running 10 hours late with backed up toilets and no food, but that wasn't yours. I always tell new Amtrak riders that 1-2hr delays are to be assumed and 4-6hr delays are to be anticipated. Scandinavians win those happiness metrics because they have low expectations for life that are almost always exceeded. You're on this forum because you like trains. That's the place to start.  You are getting to do the thing that you like.

For the non-railfan traveler, a significant feature of LD rail travel is that Amtrak gives you the tools to help yourself. Both Amtrak and Southwest are likely to forget the lime in my Gin and Tonic, but on Amtrak I can pull out a pocket knife and a lime and remedy the problem.  About 10 years ago Amtrak had to stop putting communal coolers of ice in the sleepers due to "health code" issues. For my recent trip I packed a soft sided cooler, filled it with ice and a 12 pack of beer at my pre-departure hotel and I was good to go. Airlines have their own version of this, but it mostly involves having status and sweet talking the staff who have all the real power. On the train, despite all the delays and mismanagement, riders still have far more power to define their own ride experiance. 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/26 05:52 by mbrotzman.

Why does Amtrak need "chef's", all they need is a cook & cooks helper. There is no meal
planning, no roasts or pie's in the oven. The only item's prepared to order is the steak at
dinner; hamburger for lunch and eggs for breakfast. Everything else I assume is already
prepared and then heated up in a convection oven. It's always green beans & carrots for
dinner, maybe a baked potato; instant whip's. Lunch it's chips, and morning those nasty
breakfast potatoes. Even a chef can't change the offerings.



Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if part of the problem is a lack of
> qualified dining car chefs?  Amtrak has
> advertised for experienced chefs in the recent
> past, which suggests their chef "extra board" may
> be as thin as some of their other area
>
> Being a chef is a tough job, but being on a
> hamster wheel of late trains, minimal rest, and
> back to work must be another layer of hardship. 
> And, unlike a good restaurant sous chef, a dining
> car chef has limited upward mobility. And not much
> help (dishwasher, cooks, fry guys, etc) Doing the
> same stuff for 30 more years isn't particularly
> appetizing

jeff56 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does Amtrak need "chef's", all they need is a
> cook & cooks helper. There is no meal
> planning, no roasts or pie's in the oven. The only
> item's prepared to order is the steak at
> dinner; hamburger for lunch and eggs for
> breakfast. Everything else I assume is already
> prepared and then heated up in a convection oven.
> It's always green beans & carrots for
> dinner, maybe a baked potato; instant whip's.
> Lunch it's chips, and morning those nasty
> breakfast potatoes. Even a chef can't change the
> offerings.
>

I assume they are adjusting the job title to make the service appear higher to riders end and to attract applicants with higher skills, even if they aren't performing full restaurant chef duties. Whatever you want to call them they need to cook to order a high volume of steaks and salmon in a limited period of time. That's a little bit beyond what I'd expect of a short order guy.

> No chef on the CA Zephyr...........well that's a
> unique situation...........Who did Amtrak find to
> make the half baked meals that they did serve
> (flex meals and all)? Was it a general LSA (cafe
> attendant)? I have to wonder if this is part of a
> larger problem Amtrak has with staffing out of
> Chicago when they sorely shifted the crew base of
> the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago. Wrong
> MOVE! The Seattle crew base for the Empire Builder
> was a GREAT staff who made a great experience for
> passengers and typically had more passion in their
> jobs than the Chicago crews its got now. Amtrak
> expected the OBS staff to move to Chicago and they
> didn't for the most part. I was aboard earlier
> this year when this shift was to take affect and
> my sleeping car attendant and the dining crews I
> spoke with had "alternate plans" than going to
> Chicago.......Amtrak should have allowed sleeping
> car passengers to take meals in the Sightseer
> Lounge's Cafe if they wanted to - would have
> likely been better than the flex meals. And this
> "downgrade" in what is regular/normal food service
> on the CA Zephyr - THAT should be reimbursed BACK
> to passengers. 

The move to CHI is likely worth it even if it causes short term problems. Cost of living in Chicago is far lower and Amtrak isn't having to compete with Seattle's robust cruise industry. Granted, the cruise industry will create a good local pool of quality service workers, but it will make it a lot harder to hold onto the good ones. A larger pool of staff should ultimately reduce this type of situation via an extra board that is both deeper and highly utilized.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/26 06:07 by mbrotzman.

mbrotzman Wrote:

> The shuttle equipment arrives at Indy and waits on
> 51 to couple up. It's the fastest way to perform
> the operation and saves more time than having
> passengers walk a few hundred extra feet.

Why not pull 51 into CUS on the run-thru track (28 ?) and let the deadhead equipment spill out onto the north side ? The north side is not that congested mid-day that they can't do it. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why not pull 51 into CUS on the run-thru track (28
> ?) and let the deadhead equipment spill out onto
> the north side ? The north side is not that
> congested mid-day that they can't do it. 

That moves the passengers farther away from the lounge crosswise. I assume if 51 was on time (ie early) they would have wyed it and backed in. 

I don't currently know who makes the call to hold trains for connections, but I know a former 14th St yardmaster that I can ask.  I'd be willing to bet that one factor in the decision is how many sleeper passengers from a previous day's missed connection are standing by for room space. 

I hope late trains don't wye prior to arrival

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope late trains don't wye prior to arrival

Have had several late western LDTs get turned outside CUS despite being hours late. 

If the Cardinal was cut back to WAS, and that frees up enough equipment for daily service on a retimed schedule, couldn't the Viewliner(s) from the Cardinal just become setout sleeper(s) added to the FL trains to get the back and forth to maintenance.

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jeff56 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why does Amtrak need "chef's", all they need is
> a
> > cook & cooks helper. There is no meal
> > planning, no roasts or pie's in the oven. The
> only
> > item's prepared to order is the steak at
> > dinner; hamburger for lunch and eggs for
> > breakfast. Everything else I assume is already
> > prepared and then heated up in a convection
> oven.
> > It's always green beans & carrots for
> > dinner, maybe a baked potato; instant whip's.
> > Lunch it's chips, and morning those nasty
> > breakfast potatoes. Even a chef can't change
> the
> > offerings.
> >
>
> I assume they are adjusting the job title to make
> the service appear higher to riders end and to
> attract applicants with higher skills, even if
> they aren't performing full restaurant chef
> duties. Whatever you want to call them they need
> to cook to order a high volume of steaks and
> salmon in a limited period of time. That's a
> little bit beyond what I'd expect of a short order
> guy.
>
> > No chef on the CA Zephyr...........well that's
> a
> > unique situation...........Who did Amtrak find
> to
> > make the half baked meals that they did serve
> > (flex meals and all)? Was it a general LSA
> (cafe
> > attendant)? I have to wonder if this is part of
> a
> > larger problem Amtrak has with staffing out of
> > Chicago when they sorely shifted the crew base
> of
> > the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago.
> Wrong
> > MOVE! The Seattle crew base for the Empire
> Builder
> > was a GREAT staff who made a great experience
> for
> > passengers and typically had more passion in
> their
> > jobs than the Chicago crews its got now. Amtrak
> > expected the OBS staff to move to Chicago and
> they
> > didn't for the most part. I was aboard earlier
> > this year when this shift was to take affect
> and
> > my sleeping car attendant and the dining crews
> I
> > spoke with had "alternate plans" than going to
> > Chicago.......Amtrak should have allowed
> sleeping
> > car passengers to take meals in the Sightseer
> > Lounge's Cafe if they wanted to - would have
> > likely been better than the flex meals. And
> this
> > "downgrade" in what is regular/normal food
> service
> > on the CA Zephyr - THAT should be reimbursed
> BACK
> > to passengers. 
>
> The move to CHI is likely worth it even if it
> causes short term problems. Cost of living in
> Chicago is far lower and Amtrak isn't having to
> compete with Seattle's robust cruise industry.
> Granted, the cruise industry will create a good
> local pool of quality service workers, but it will
> make it a lot harder to hold onto the good ones. A
> larger pool of staff should ultimately reduce this
> type of situation via an extra board that is both
> deeper and highly utilized.

Any cook from Dennys etc should be able to handle the relatively low volume and very limited Amtrak cooking duties. There’s nothing special to be done. The job would be much more taxing at any common breakfast restaurant.

Posted from iPhone

alan2955 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Any cook from Dennys etc should be able to handle
> the relatively low volume and very limited Amtrak
> cooking duties. There’s nothing special to be
> done. The job would be much more taxing at any
> common breakfast restaurant.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Cooked to order steak and salmon is not a necessary Denny's skill where everything comes out well done. Go watch Kitchen Knightmares (UK) to better learn the difference between a snack bar cook and a sit down restaurant chef and why the median person on this forum would want the latter and notice the former.

An airline / Acela First microwave meal isn't fine dining, but its probably better than a shoe leather steak or a dry, microwave defrosted salmon filet (the latter of which I was served on a non-rebuilt heritage dining car on Crescent Train 19 in 2009 and constitutes my worst AmMeal ever).

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alan2955 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Any cook from Dennys etc should be able to
> handle
> > the relatively low volume and very limited
> Amtrak
> > cooking duties. There’s nothing special to be
> > done. The job would be much more taxing at any
> > common breakfast restaurant.
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> Cooked to order steak and salmon is not a
> necessary Denny's skill where everything comes out
> well done. Go watch Kitchen Knightmares (UK) to
> better learn the difference between a snack bar
> cook and a sit down restaurant chef and why the
> median person on this forum would want the latter
> and notice the former.
>
> An airline / Acela First microwave meal isn't fine
> dining, but its probably better than a shoe
> leather steak or a dry, microwave defrosted salmon
> filet (the latter of which I was served on a
> non-rebuilt heritage dining car on Crescent Train
> 19 in 2009 and constitutes my worst AmMeal ever).

Amtrak chef / cook may be an example where Amtrak's wage scale is out of sync with the market. Similar to problems Amtrak has   with electricians, escelator technicians, etc in many markets. Chef work is hard work, and stripping away support staff like dishwashers, runners, etc adds to the work.  And, long hours away from home, fast turn arounds, limited upward mobility, etc isn't a good situation.