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International Railroad Discussion > More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda


Date: 02/22/19 11:17
More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: Lackawanna484

Railway Gazette reports on another rail link to Tokyo's busy airport.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/asia/single-view/view/third-rail-route-to-tokyo-haneda-airport-finalised.html

and NJ.com reports that a lot of US airlines will be transferring service from Narita to Haneda

https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/02/more-tokyo-flights-could-be-coming-to-newark-airport-in-time-for-the-2020-olympics.html



Date: 02/22/19 11:55
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: symph1

So if one is changing to bullet trains to the west, this is good. But if you're changing to the Shinkansen to the north, Narita and direct rail connections to Tokyo or Ueno stations is still better. My son lives in Tsunan, Niigata, so I know the drill all too well.



Date: 02/22/19 18:44
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: cchan006

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Railway Gazette reports on another rail link to
> Tokyo's busy airport.
>
> https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/asia/sing
> le-view/view/third-rail-route-to-tokyo-haneda-airp
> ort-finalised.html
>
> and NJ.com reports that a lot of US airlines will
> be transferring service from Narita to Haneda
>
> https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/02/more-tokyo-flig
> hts-could-be-coming-to-newark-airport-in-time-for-
> the-2020-olympics.html

I've been looking at JR East's proposals for at least a year now. FYI, the new line to Haneda Airport won't be completed in time for the 2020 Olympics, so the Keikyu Airport Line, Tokyo Monorail, the Airport Limousine buses, and the famous taxis will be burdened with the Olympic crowd.

Tokyo Monorail was completed in time to serve the 1964 Tokyo Olympics, so it's nice to see that service step up to the plate again.

I prefer flying into Haneda over Narita, because it's very convenient to access the Yamanote Line loop (Hamamatsucho via the monorail, Shinagawa via the Keikyu Line) in 30 minutes or less, instead of paying the limited express charge on either JR East's Narita Express (about 1 hour) or Keisei Railway's Skyliner (35-40 minutes) from Narita. Tokyo is usually my home base when I visit.

Railway Age's article has minor errors on the routing details, but it's forgivable. The abandoned JR Freight Line must go over or duck under both the Shinkansen ROW (eastern most) and the Tokaido Line ROW to access the Yamanote and Keihin Tohoku Line near Tamachi. There are other reasons (nearby flyover between Yamanote and Keihin Tohoku Lines) that'll complicate the connections to those lines. Instead, the proposal has the Haneda Airport Line connect to the Tokaido Line to reach Tokyo and points north. Name of this proposal is the East Yamanote Route, and casual observers might get confused.

The second route is the West Yamanote Route (toward Shinjuku) but this will connect to the Yamanote Freight Line via Osaki, not the Yamanote Line .

The third route is the Rinkai Route which actually goes east along Tokyo Bay. This should connect to the Keiyo Line, and if desired, the Musashino Line to cover Tokyo suburbs to the north (like Saitama Prefecture).

JR Freight will also benefit from the new route, as trains from the north can now make a more direct shot to the Tokyo Freight Terminal. It's too early to guess what Japanese transportation planners ultimately decide to do, but plenty of new foaming possibilities in about 10-11 years.



Date: 02/23/19 06:13
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: Lackawanna484

Thanks for the detailed back ground. The US airlines seem to be making a bee-line for Haneda

Posted from Android



Date: 02/23/19 18:50
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: cchan006

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the detailed back ground. The US
> airlines seem to be making a bee-line for Haneda

This is kind of a full circle, as Haneda hosted the international flights until 1978, when Narita first opened. Many of the large carriers migrated from Haneda to Narita during their economic boom in the 1980s.

Off topic, but the human story behind the Narita Airport is tragic, involving subversive eminent domain by the government to anger the local land owners (mostly farmers), the war/terrorism from that anger, including a first generation Keisei Skyliner train set being sabotaged.

The Narita Shinkansen proposal never became reality, and concrete structures sat unused for years, until the higher speed Sky Access Line (100 mph) started service almost 9 years ago.



Date: 02/25/19 17:31
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: DavidP

Narita is slowly becoming the next Mirabel.

Dave



Date: 02/25/19 20:25
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: cchan006

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Narita is slowly becoming the next Mirabel.
>
> Dave

Montreal-Mirabel in Quebec? Narita is not going away in my lifetime. Game Theory (versus) won't apply here.

Haneda being close to downtown Tokyo has airspace restrictions that Narita doesn't have. Yokota Air Force Base further restricts Haneda capacity. Runway expansions can be completed quicker and cheaper at Narita (landlocked airport) while Haneda expansion will have to deal with Tokyo Bay and more landfills. Well, Narita may still have NIMBY issues...

Many airlines have flights to both Narita and Haneda from the same origin/destination but different time slots (United, JAL, ANA, and the codeshare partners, for example). When Haneda's new international terminal opened in 2010, yield pricing favored it over Narita - old habits die hard, and most people continued to fly to Narita. However, that's not the case anymore, so passenger usage has "balanced" between both airports.

Many people use Tokyo (either Haneda or Narita) for connections, so in that regard, both airports exist to handle extra capacity. Both airports offer convenient public transportation, especially trains, so as mentioned by symph1 above, Narita is still useful to many.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/19 20:38 by cchan006.



Date: 02/26/19 11:22
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: Lackawanna484

Thanks for that background, it's informative.

The original NJ.com article seemed to convey that United and Delta are moving their operations from Narita to Haneda in anticipation of the Olympics.



Date: 02/26/19 12:06
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: symph1

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for that background, it's informative.
>
> The original NJ.com article seemed to convey that
> United and Delta are moving their operations from
> Narita to Haneda in anticipation of the Olympics.

Not completely. UAL also has a non-stop Denver-Narita flight, and nowhere does it say that's movng.



Date: 02/26/19 12:29
Re: More trains and planes to Tokyo Haneda
Author: Lackawanna484

symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for that background, it's informative.
> >
> > The original NJ.com article seemed to convey
> that
> > United and Delta are moving their operations
> from
> > Narita to Haneda in anticipation of the
> Olympics.
>
> Not completely. UAL also has a non-stop
> Denver-Narita flight, and nowhere does it say
> that's movng.

Makes sense that point wouldn't have been a focus of an NJ.com article.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Delta seems to be going whole hog on Haneda.  Creating and moving a lot of service to Haneda.

https://news.delta.com/delta-proposes-flights-between-haneda-tokyo-s-city-airport-and-5-new-us-cities



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