International Railroad Discussion > JR East may be forced to scrap 120 shinkansen cars

This is 300 Million yen ($2.76 Million) worth of equipment.  The flood has also cut the shinkansen line from Tokyo to Kanazawa. The route is estimated to reopen in 10 to 14 days.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/17/national/jr-east-may-scrap-120-flooded-shinkansen-cars/?fbclid=IwAR0QJUshM-HqpvJa1f1xGrTadi5e_OKpa4iy0nKe2ypasKzsjN5IFRQpzKI



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/19 14:14 by Christo.

Wow, that sounds catastrophic.

Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of harms way before the storm. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of harms
> way before the storm. 

Because maybe they didn't expect the flooding that occurred here?  This was the biggest storm they had seen in over 60 years.

Maybe they hired managers from NJ Transit?

(In true NJ fashion, NJ Transit had its own emergency center which monitored storm conditions in advance of  super storm Sandy.  In true NJ fashion, the two guys in the center did not know how to read weather maps, and chose to ignore days of dire warnings from the county and state emergency management centers.

Wind driven flooding swamped dozens of new multi-level cars, locomotives, and employee vehicles in the low lying yards area. No doubt promotions were handed out...)

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of harms
> way before the storm. 

Yup I agree.  You would think that you were the only one to think of this.  Sheesh!

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of harms
> way before the storm.

I don't think JR East expected the levee to break along the nearby Chikuma River. Besides, there wouldn't have been too many places to move them, since other yards were near capacity or full as JR East suspended all Shinkansen services ahead of the typhoon.

I was in Japan when Typhoon #19 (a.k.a Hagibis) made landfall. I was awake to see the first daytime live news coverage before 6 am local time and saw the flooded E7 Shinkansen sets from a helicopter footage. The reporters didn't know what to say when they first saw the footage, but I guessed (correctly) that JR East was in trouble.

The 120 cars = 10 train sets, about 1/3 of the Hokuriku Shinkansen fleet. They can still run ~20 other train sets.

However, to keep things in perspective, that's just for the Hokuriku Shinkansen Line. They also have Joetsu and Tohoku Shinkansen Lines, which will have little if any impact from the typhoon flooding

The more popular Shinkansen Lines to the west and south (Tokaido, Sanyo, Kyushu) resumed normal operations the next day.

PHall Wrote:
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> Because maybe they didn't expect the flooding that
> occurred here?  This was the biggest storm they
> had seen in over 60 years.

Yup, but to be more accurate, the biggest storm to hit the Kanto Region (Tokyo area) in 60 years. They've had other devastating typhoons make landfall elsewhere, usually much further west.

Good to see something factual here. Otherwise, I see lots of ill-informed speculations and comparisons in this thread, which is OK, but as a Hagibis survivor, I'm chuckling at them. :-)

inCHI Wrote:
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> Wow, that sounds catastrophic.

Just for the Hokuriku Shinkansen Line as I stated above. No such drama for the 5 other Shinkansen Lines throughout Japan, which should be running normally by now.  E7 sets are still being manufactured, so replacements can be made, and damaged sets can be parted out, if necessary.

The article is well written and covers the important facts, but I'll mention the specifics regarding the Hokuriku Line that makes it unique. Due to Japan's non-uniform standardization of transmission power, the Hokuriku Line switches between 50Hz to 60Hz 3 times end to end. That requires specific train sets that are dual mode capable.

Unfortunately, all the flood-damaged sets are dual mode capable E7 sets. Of the older sets still running, only a small portion of them (E2s and doubledecker E4s) are dual mode capable so there aren't enough of them to prevent service disruption on the Hokuriku Line. Most surviving E2s and E4s are 50 Hz only.

FYI, entire Tokaido/Sanyo/Kyushu Shinkansen Lines are 60 Hz only. Tohoku and Joestu Lines are 50 Hz only. Anyway, a book can be written regarding the impact of Japan having 50 Hz and 60 Hz standards. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of harms
> way before the storm. 

people make mistakes. Look at the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster... that was avoidable but there wasn't sufficient protection for the back-up diesel generators in a place where Tsunamis occur. They were hit by a tsunami...

The latest update is that the Hokoriku Line will be back in service on October 25th. They are predicting that 90% of the shinkansen schedule between Tokyo and Kanazawa will be available.  The exact timetable will be posted on October 23rd.

By all accounts, the damage to the train sets was not caused by negligence.  The train yard was not in a flood prone area (unlike the oft referenced NJT incident). The storm was the largest downpour in 60 years. Finally, the levees failed inundating the train yards and other parts of Nagano.

Congratulations to JR East for the rapid response to restore service.  It shows what good staff and good resources can accomplish.

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201910190023.html?fbclid=IwAR31gqcRAnd-WEnakqagom3d3oiRLygIPrWNHnKFET_cfFOsCWcAm_9HeN4

Christo Wrote:
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> By all accounts, the damage to the train sets was
> not caused by negligence.  The train yard was not
> in a flood prone area (unlike the oft referenced
> NJT incident). The storm was the largest downpour
> in 60 years. Finally, the levees failed inundating
> the train yards and other parts of Nagano.

Nagano is in the mountains with the elevation of about 1220 feet, and nowhere near a large body of water like oceans and lakes. Geographically very dissimilar to New Jersey.

The presence of the yard has a reason. Hokuriku Shinkansen used to be called Nagano Shinkansen, because that's where it terminated when it was first constructed in 1997. It's no coincidence that the Winter Olympic was held there the same year. The yard is in a large basin away from the mountain slopes. Had it been constructed near a hillside, it would have been evacuated to avoid mudslides (VERY common in Japan), and we wouldn't be talking about this.

> Congratulations to JR East for the rapid response
> to restore service.  It shows what good staff and
> good resources can accomplish.

Yup. I attended a model train show not far from another flooded area (Tamagawa, or Tama River) on Sunday, the day after the typhoon caused havoc. The Saturday show was cancelled, but JR East did an excellent job to put most of the hundreds of non-HSR trains in service the next day, allowing many people to resume normal lives as soon as possible.

>>This is 300 Million yen ($276 Million) worth of equipment.  The flood has also cut the shinkansen line from Tokyo to Kanazawa. The route is estimated to reopen in 10 to 14 days.

There is a . missing.  300million yen = 2.77 million dollars.

Thanks, I will correct the original post

The good news is that JR East brought the operation back, but the reduced number of trains a bit to accommodate the shortage of the fleet.

My son lives in Tsunan, downriver from Nagano. The water was up to the very top of the levee there, but luckily didn't break through. And it was flowing fast. He lives on high ground, but his best friend lives right by the levee, and they had to evacuate. Scary times.

symph1 Wrote:
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> My son lives in Tsunan, downriver from Nagano. The
> water was up to the very top of the levee there,
> but luckily didn't break through. And it was
> flowing fast. He lives on high ground, but his
> best friend lives right by the levee, and they had
> to evacuate. Scary times.

It should be called the Shinano River in Tsunan and it's the longest and widest river in Japan. Chikuma River is its name upstream in Nagano, and a song was written about it. Even more unexpected that a levee would break upstream.

cchan006 Wrote:
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> symph1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My son lives in Tsunan, downriver from Nagano.
> The
> > water was up to the very top of the levee
> there,
> > but luckily didn't break through. And it was
> > flowing fast. He lives on high ground, but his
> > best friend lives right by the levee, and they
> had
> > to evacuate. Scary times.
>
> It should be called the Shinano River in Tsunan
> and it's the longest and widest river in Japan.
> Chikuma River is its name upstream in Nagano, and
> a song was written about it. Even more unexpected
> that a levee would break upstream.

Right, the river changes its name, but it's physically the same.

The Tsunan station is quite close to the levee. While the tracks are up a little, the parking lot would surely have flooded, had the levee been breached. Plus the hotel I usually stay at.

JR East announced today formally to scrap 8 consists instead of repairing them. 
JR West already made a similar announcement to scrap their two consists because it is too expensive to repair.

cchan006 Wrote:
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> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wonder why the trains weren't moved out of
> harms
> > way before the storm.
>
> I don't think JR East expected the levee to break
> along the nearby Chikuma River. Besides, there
> wouldn't have been too many places to move them,
> since other yards were near capacity or full as JR
> East suspended all Shinkansen services ahead of
> the typhoon.
>

If service was suspended, could trainsets have been spotted at stations? What about queuing them on one track of the main line out of flooding zone?

* JB *