International Railroad Discussion > We are WAY, WAY, WAY behind

With a lot of extra time on my hands, I have been watching a number of You Tube railroad videos. There are a number of China railroad related videos, primarily featuring the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative) that focus on the new Chinese transportation efforts involving a resurrected "Silk Road" using new rail connections with central Asia and Europe. There is one You Tube video titled "[color=var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-color, var(--yt-spec-text-primary))]China Railway Express: From Silk Road to Silk Railroad" that is excellent. You will want to pay particular attention to the Chinese woman reporter who is perfect in every way, and gives an A+ performance in this video. You will see that the attempts by the US to blunt China's emergence as a great global power are coming too little too late, and are, in fact, exasberating the problem. Instead of weakening are ties with China we should be strengthening them. It is in the best interests of the America consumer that we do so.  Part and Parcel to this is are intermodal transport of Chinese goods from the western US. A soon as the virus issue is contained, we need to restore that critical structure, not weaken it. The recovery our economy depends on it.  [/color]

LX15840 Wrote:
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> You will see that the attempts by the US to blunt China's
> emergence as a great global power are coming too
> little too late, and are, in fact, exasberating the problem.
> Instead of weakening are ties with China we should be
> strengthening them. It is in the best interests of the America
> consumer that we do so.

There's much to research regarding China-U.S. trade relations. I hope you didn't form your opinion JUST by watching YouTube videos of Chinese trains. I'll let others take your bait on this issue.

We are "way behind" because we chose to build an automotive society, by "market forces," by timely cabinet appointments of auto executives by 2 different Presidents, or whatever you want to believe. So in reality, we aren't" behind" because that's what we had chosen.

No need to cry over spilled milk.

As Tonto would say to the Lone Ranger:  "What you mean 'WE', kemosabe?"

I didn't vote for the car culture and have lived my life in opposition to it as best I can.  Car culture was imposed for the benefit of oligarchic profiteers.  We (correctly used in this case) were told that car culture is freedom.  Living near a typical highway is like living near an open sewer except with lots of noise and more people getting hurt and dying, and that's just one of many common-sense points.  

You guys are assuming that the post was written by a "railfan". 
Chinese consulates have been attempting to sway public opinion of China and the Chinese Communist Party in the west for awhile now.
This is just an example of their latest effort.

Coincidently, the class 66 that hauled the first China-Europe train into London came through on my local route just a couple of days ago, on a steel train.

---

PHall Wrote:
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> You guys are assuming that the post was written by
> a "railfan". 
> Chinese consulates have been attempting to sway
> public opinion of China and the Chinese Communist
> Party in the west for awhile now.
> This is just an example of their latest effort.

Heh. Maybe his 19+ years old TO membership got hijacked by the Chinese? Or he's under mind control? :-)

For those who've studied the history of CA HSR buffonery the past 12 years, some board members (the "economist" types) almost got suckered into making a deal with the Chinese. The Chinese have been involved in schemes far more subversive than posting stuff on social media, for those who've been watching their actions for the past several decades.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are assuming that the post was written by
> a "railfan". 
> Chinese consulates have been attempting to sway
> public opinion of China and the Chinese Communist
> Party in the west for awhile now.
> This is just an example of their latest effort.

I think that’s what most countries’ overseas missions do.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You guys are assuming that the post was written
> by
> > a "railfan". 
> > Chinese consulates have been attempting to sway
> > public opinion of China and the Chinese
> Communist
> > Party in the west for awhile now.
> > This is just an example of their latest effort.
>
> I think that’s what most countries’ overseas
> missions do.
>
> Dave

But how many contact state legislators directly in an effort to get a resolution, written by the Chinese Government, that praises the People's Republic of China and the Chinese Communist Party and their handling of the COVAD-19 Pandemic?
China did as was reported on NPR with an interview of the legislator who was contacted.

[edit - spelling errors]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/20 10:26 by PHall.

If the original poster will come back on and define this word, I would love to hear from him or her, and it may lend some credibility (or prove some others' points) about this person's authenticity.

exasberating
 

I've eschewed ChiCom caca since 1949.

Getting in bed with the Chinese Communist Party is like getting in bed with the Nazi Party in the 1930s...yes they were a growing power with which many companies and nations wanted to do business with.

However, scratch just below the surface and see the atrocious human rights violations and bullying of other nations. Hopefully you will have second thoughts about doing business with and pandering to the Chinese Communist Party. And they've murdered more people in the last 70 years than Hitler could dream of.

Posted from Android

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
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> Getting in bed with the Chinese Communist Party is
> like getting in bed with the Nazi Party in the
> 1930s...yes they were a growing power with which
> many companies and nations wanted to do business
> with.
>
> However, scratch just below the surface and see
> the atrocious human rights violations and bullying
> of other nations. Hopefully you will have second
> thoughts about doing business with and pandering
> to the Chinese Communist Party. And they've
> murdered more people in the last 70 years than
> Hitler could dream of.
>

Whooaah there! I'm no fan of any communist regime and I'm well aware of what China has done wrong, but maybe before throwing stones as you just have you ought to have just a little humility... has your country always been nice to everyone and done the right thing?

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cabsignaldrop Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Getting in bed with the Chinese Communist Party
> is
> > like getting in bed with the Nazi Party in the
> > 1930s...yes they were a growing power with
> which
> > many companies and nations wanted to do
> business
> > with.
> >
> > However, scratch just below the surface and see
> > the atrocious human rights violations and
> bullying
> > of other nations. Hopefully you will have
> second
> > thoughts about doing business with and
> pandering
> > to the Chinese Communist Party. And they've
> > murdered more people in the last 70 years than
> > Hitler could dream of.
> >
>
> Whooaah there! I'm no fan of any communist regime
> and I'm well aware of what China has done wrong,
> but maybe before throwing stones as you just have
> you ought to have just a little humility... has
> your country always been nice to everyone and done
> the right thing?

Has yours?

exhaustED Wrote:
.
> >
>
> Whooaah there! I'm no fan of any communist regime
> and I'm well aware of what China has done wrong,
> but maybe before throwing stones as you just have
> you ought to have just a little humility... has
> your country always been nice to everyone and done
> the right thing?

So, the fact that our country did bad things 150 years ago means we should support evil now? That logic is...interesting.

Nomad Wrote:
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> exhaustED Wrote:
> .
> > Whooaah there! I'm no fan of any communist
> regime
> > and I'm well aware of what China has done
> wrong,
> > but maybe before throwing stones as you just
> have
> > you ought to have just a little humility... has
> > your country always been nice to everyone and
> done
> > the right thing?

> So, the fact that our country did bad things 150
> years ago means we should support evil now? That
> logic is...interesting.

Don't be ridiculous - it means that before getting on your high horse in such an assertive way you should maybe show just a little humility/respect. Hard for some people, I know...Some people have the 'ability' to pass simplistic judgement and declare 'China = Evil'. Are you one of those people?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/20 08:02 by exhaustED.

exhaustED Wrote:
----------------------------------.
>
> Don't be ridiculous - it means that before getting
> on your high horse in such an assertive way you
> should maybe show just a little humility/respect.
> Hard for some people, I know...Some people have
> the 'ability' to pass simplistic judgement
> and declare 'China = Evil'. Are you one of those
> people?

Communist government of China:
-Is currently sending religious minorities to concentration camps. Kinda like some German government did in the mid 1900's.
-Sends doctors to jail for warning their colleagues of an emerging pandemic.
-Is developing a "social scoring" system to promote ostracizing anyone who dissents from that government's agenda.

Some people have the inability to recognize evil when it is staring them in the face. Are you one of those people?

Many of those same people are unable to perceive anything less superficial than skin color, so when they come across critism of the actions of the communist government of China, all they can tell themselves is it must be racism.

Nomad Wrote:
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> Some people have the inability to recognize evil
> when it is staring them in the face. Are you one
> of those people?

Ah, you mean like the incumbent POTUSA? Pleny of people still don't recognise that evil, even though it's staring them in the face and they actually voluntarily voted for it!

> Many of those same people are unable to perceive
> anything less superficial than skin color, so when
> they come across critism of the actions of the
> communist government of China, all they can tell
> themselves is it must be racism.

As I've stated repeatedly, I don't see China as whiter than white by any means. How many times do I need to say that before you hear it? Or does your agenda prevent you from hearing it in your black and white world?
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/20 05:31 by exhaustED.

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> As I've stated repeatedly, I don't see China as
> whiter than white by any means. How many times
> do I need to say that before you hear it? Or
> does your agenda prevent you from hearing it in
> your black and white world?
>  

No, I heard it. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt when you call people who identify the behavior of the communist government of China as evil "simplistic", but feel free to double down. Maybe you can offer a more nuanced explanation of what the actions that government has taken should be called to help us simpletons out.

The thing is, when a thread starts stating "we should be strengthening ties" with a murderous regime and turns into a debate about that topic, and you feel compelled to call others "simplistic" for getting on their "high horse" and pointing out the nature of that regime and saying maybe we shouldn't strengthen ties with them, it really sends a...at best, mixed message. Something that sounds like you think people shouldn't tell the OP the reasons that they think his policy proposition is a terrible idea.


> Ah, you mean like the incumbent POTUSA? Pleny of
> people still don't recognise that evil, even
> though it's staring them in the face and they
> actually voluntarily voted for it!

Well, yeah, exactly like that. I just don't know why you felt compelled to insert your simplistic judgement* of POTUS=evil into a thread about whether or not we should be strengthening ties with a murderous communist regime. Does your black-and-white agenda against the current POTUS mean you feel compelled to criticize people who speak out against murderous communist regimes just because that's the same position POTUS has taken?

*I admit, I may have rushed to judgement with that one. I could give you the benefit of the doubt again and assume that if someone started pointing out the atrocities committed by the current administration, you'd be the first to tell them to get off their high horse and remind them that his opposition has done the same and worse of every alleged evil he has been accused of committing. Somehow I have my doubts, but you never know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/20 12:19 by Nomad.

Nomad Wrote:

> So, the fact that our country did bad things 150 years ago means we should support evil now? That logic is...interesting.

150 Years since we did bad things?  OMG I'm laughing so hard I can't even type.  Dick Cheney sends his regards and thanks you for the Trillions in dollars in tax breaks for the richest folks who ever walked the planet earth.  But we are too poor to support those affected by Covid-19 - unlike Canada.  Open Up the Economy!


Brian

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
>
> 150 Years since we did bad things?  OMG I'm
> laughing so hard I can't even type.  Dick Cheney
> sends his regards and thanks you for the Trillions
> in dollars in tax breaks for the richest folks who
> ever walked the planet earth. 

Good point. China's government killed millions of people. Our government lets people who have a lot of money keep most of it. I can totally see the equivalency.


>  Open Up the Economy!
>
>

On that point, I am in 100% agreement. Hooray for common ground!