Railfan Technology > More Antenna Help

I could use some thoughts on what is going on with my new scanner and antenna. I have been using my Radio Shack Pro-31 Scanner with the stock rubber duck antenna for about 20 years. It worked ok for me. I had a chance to buy a Radio Shack Pro-82 scanner for the price of two Starbucks coffees. So I did. I then bought a Smiley 5/8 slim duck antenna tuned to 161mhz. I get almost no reception with the new antenna while when I put the stock rubber duck antenna from the Pro-31 I get lots of reception. What could be going on? Could I have got a bad antenna? Thanks for any help.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/09 19:35 by grandroad.

From what you have said you have a bad antenna.


Jim

You may want to try punching in a couple of NOAA weather frequencies and make a comparison of receive quality using these. If you note a significant amount of degradation in reception between the two antennas, then you would definitely have problems. I suggest these transmitters because they basically brodcast non-stop, and theres that "constant signal strength from a fixed source" thing that they have going for them. Not something easily reproduceable using RR band frequencies. If you only live a mile or two from the NOAA transmitter then obviously it would be less likely to hear a distinguishable difference, if you can find a "fringe" transmission in this band though it might be very telling.

I'm using that same Smiley on a Uniden BC92 and a Radio Shack Pro-84 with a noticeable improvement in reception over the standard antenna -- not earthshaking, but an audible, cleaner, stronger improvement. If you bought it new and it fails the NOAA WX test, call Smiley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/09 08:12 by grahamline.

Gang-
As usual you have the thoughts and answers. Thanks

Paul

I use Yasu VX150 and VX170. The antenna stuff drives me crazy. So being an Engineer I started to do some tests...I was going to make a big giant thread about it but I'm to busy. So here is the super short version. everything is rated 1 BAD through 10 GOOD scale ie 1/10= bad 5/10= avg 10/10 Best Ever

The stock yasu stubby was 2/10. The smiley duck I had tuned to 160-161 worked ok i give it a 6/10. It did Get a loose connection after only 3 months and worked awful from that point on. Next was the Diamond 77CH with SMA. Amazing reception for a handheld radio. 9/10. Next up is a single wire I found at Fry's. its tuned to 144-165 and is made by Prime. It works great out in the open but not in the city or in the car. 7/10.

As for a mag mount automotive antenna The Train Tenna was well made and had a strong magnet and nice plastic cover. It also performed better then any antenna I have ever used its a 10/10. I was using a Rail com magnet mount but over 6-9 months it got a brake in the coax wire. I did use a BNC to SMA connector wire but that part seems to be fine. When Rail Com worked it was a 9/10 But no better then the Diamond 77CH handheld in the city... but it was a fair amount more sensitive out in the open areas and a lot less stuff to drag around. So I say if you want something on your car.... call train tenna get $80 and if you want a great all around performer and well built hand held antenna go Diamond 77CH and crank the squelch for $24

It's been a while since I've priced parts seperately, but wouldn't a mag mount, coil, and whip bought seperately at a ham shop be considerably cheaper than $80? Just curious.

LV Foamer wrote: "As for a mag mount automotive antenna The Train Tenna was well made and had a strong magnet and nice plastic cover. It also performed better then any antenna I have ever used its a 10/10."

Just my .02, and not stating your opinion is invalid LV, as I'm sure most of us agree that Train Tenna makes a good product. For the sake of the hobby as well as the information that we pass along to others who are maybe just beginning to get involved in radio, it's a slippery slope and can lead to confusion when we try to apply numbers like "10/10" to something as variable as an antenna. I realize you are just throwing your opinion out there with the intent to help others by benefitting from your experience and I'm all for that as one who has experimented with a variety of antennas, scanners, tranceivers, and assorted/related gear over several decades, and have the expense side to show for all that. But as an example of what I'm trying to point out, the rating of a magnetic mount antenna as more or less the "best", neglects that a roof mount version of such antennas will establish a better overall ground plane, and conceivably will provide a bit more gain on the receive side. Maybe not necessarily relating to this specific discussion, Yagi's, Cubical Quads, and other "Directional" type antennas can provide even more gain and yield stunning results, granting however that rarely would these be adaptable to a motor vehicle application, but it further serves to illustrate the difficulty of applying any type of rating to one type of antenna or other, the exception of course being "Gain" ;.)

LVFoamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use Yasu VX150 and VX170. The antenna stuff
> drives me crazy. So being an Engineer I started to
> do some tests...I was going to make a big giant
> thread about it but I'm to busy. So here is the
> super short version. everything is rated 1 BAD
> through 10 GOOD scale ie 1/10= bad 5/10= avg 10/10
> Best Ever
>
> The stock yasu stubby was 2/10. The smiley duck I
> had tuned to 160-161 worked ok i give it a 6/10.
> It did Get a loose connection after only 3 months
> and worked awful from that point on. Next was the
> Diamond 77CH with SMA. Amazing reception for a
> handheld radio. 9/10. Next up is a single wire I
> found at Fry's. its tuned to 144-165 and is made
> by Prime. It works great out in the open but not
> in the city or in the car. 7/10.
>
> As for a mag mount automotive antenna The Train
> Tenna was well made and had a strong magnet and
> nice plastic cover. It also performed better then
> any antenna I have ever used its a 10/10. I was
> using a Rail com magnet mount but over 6-9 months
> it got a brake in the coax wire. I did use a BNC
> to SMA connector wire but that part seems to be
> fine. When Rail Com worked it was a 9/10 But no
> better then the Diamond 77CH handheld in the
> city... but it was a fair amount more sensitive
> out in the open areas and a lot less stuff to drag
> around. So I say if you want something on your
> car.... call train tenna get $80 and if you want a
> great all around performer and well built hand
> held antenna go Diamond 77CH and crank the squelch
> for $24


I concur with the many of the concerns of "trainmaster3."

I can understand why the "antenna stuff" would drive one "crazy." There are myriad variables
in antenna theory and operation, with some factors affecting operation in a counter-intuitive
fashion. Sanity can be retained by employing technical rigor and being skeptical of claims that
require the suspension of one (or more) laws of physics or the "discovery" of a new law.

I subscribe to the dictum: "That which is not rigorous is meaningless." This quote has been
attributed to Lord Kelvin.

I hope "LVfoamer" can find the time to post the numerical data made during his tests including the equipment and methodology used to conduct the tests.

Without knowing the testing protocol, the specifics of the antennas involved and the basis for
assigning a score I don't know what use can be made of the report.

That the Smiley antenna so quickly failed in service surprises me not at all. I did business with Smiley Antenna once and have chosen not to business with them again.

I find the "144-165 MHz" coverage range claim of the Pryme antenna curious and would like to see actual test results made under controlled conditions. I have no difficulty controlling my enthusiasm for Pryme products.

One could say that an unfolded coat hanger will pick up signals in a range of frequencies but without seeing the numbers produced by actual measurement, it is not possible to know how well, nor how the reception compares with another antenna or a ball of aluminum foil.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

30+ years in the 2-way radio industry
45 years in Amateur Radio