Railfan Technology > Panchromatic Nitrate film

I have been scanning and re-scanning the Emil Albrecht 35mm black & white negatives I now own. Some that I scanned back in 2013 are getting re-scanned due to a better scanner, and more skill on my part.

I just realised that several from 1946 are Panchromatic Nitrate film stock, which is dangerous on many levels, and the reason Kodak invented Safety Film. Since I don't have proper storage facilities, and I have not been able to get an archive to take these due mostly to copyright issues, my inclination is to figure a way to scan them in some form of "raw" format, then dispose of the negatives themselves. In addition, these are very tightly curled, and cannot be stored flat.

I am open to suggestions, but am not interested in any comment to "send them to me, I'll take them."

Don Strack

You might ask someone at a large museum, such as the Smithsonian. I suspect that they deal with this problem all of the time.

John.

I have to believe someone at https://history.utah.gov/library-collections/ has dealt with this sort of negatives, but I am equally sure you have already been down that road.  At the very least, they could tell you how they handle the situation, if you can make contact with a conservator or technician.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/19 10:22 by grahamline.

The Northeast Document Conservation Center may be able to help. 

"Founded in 1973, NEDCC was the first independent conservation laboratory in the nation to specialize exclusively in treating collections made of paper or parchment, such as works of art, photographs, books, documents, maps, and manuscripts. Today, the Center offers conservation treatment, digital imaging, and audio preservation services, as well as preservation training, assessments and consultations, and disaster advice on collections. NEDCC is a trusted resource worldwide for information on the preservation of paper-based collections." 

https://www.nedcc.org 

Link to their photograph conservation page: https://www.nedcc.org/photograph-conservation-at-nedcc/about 

OCV  

 

Is it possible to do another final rinse of the negatives in distilled water then press them in a print drier to take the twist out of the negatives?

fbe Wrote:
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> Is it possible to do another final rinse of the
> negatives in distilled water then press them in a
> print drier to take the twist out of the
> negatives?

That's a thought, but doing so might do what to the
emulsion on the nitrate backing? Tear it? or will
the emulsion simply be freed from the backing,
making a nasty business of something already fragile.

The experts have been down this road. I'd check with
them before doing the obvious has a big pitfall that
will not be anticipated until it is unmasked during
soaking/flattening.

(BTDT)

John.

The Nitrate film is a scarey part, but I recently had some 120 film that dried with a curl (transverse) that made it difficult to scan. Probably a problem with the conditions the film dried in. I warmed up the film carefully, then put them into the protective sleaves, and put a book over them so they'd cool being held flat. It worked.

I would definately seek out expert advice on how to handle that Nitrate film. Please report back, as I'm very curious now!

Arved Grass
Fleming Island, FL

I didn't mean to go and do it but to take the idea and ask around about it. All the roll films I have heard about are safe in water account liquids are used in all steps of processing the images.

I was given a roll of 35MM b&w film some years back shot by a friend of mine.   He kept the rolls intact and stored them in the film can.  It had been taken out and printed several times at the least.  It was shot in the early 40s and after all of that time coiled up in the can had turned into a coil of spring steel.   I tried every way I could imagine to flatten it out, but it kept that coiled form.   Of course, every time someone uncoiled it and let it snap back into the coil, it scratched the emulsion.
I finally settled on buying some snap together slide mounts, cutting it into individual frames.   Only way to fly.

Here's Kodak's take on the subject.

https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical_information/storage/storage_and_handing_of_processed_nitrate_film/default.htm#insp

One comment that caught my attention was that it should never be enclosed in an air-tight container.

Greg Stadter
Phoenix, AZ

Don, where are you located? That help us to better direct you to some who might be local to you. If you where in CA, I would recommend a phone call to the UCLA Film Scholl and their restoration people. They handle a lot of stuff for the Academy of Television and Film.

While we are talking about negatives, how do you remove the red opaqing crap on them?   Before Photoshop, that's how you got rid of something on the neg.

Frisco1522 Wrote:
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> While we are talking about negatives, how do you
> remove the red opaqing crap on them?   Before
> Photoshop, that's how you got rid of something on
> the neg.

You mean the orange mask on color negatives?

Some scanner software will do it automatically. Otherwise, there are a couple tutorials on Youtube if you look hard enough.

Arved Grass
Fleming Island, FL

Arved Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > While we are talking about negatives, how do
> you
> > remove the red opaqing crap on them?   Before
> > Photoshop, that's how you got rid of something
> on
> > the neg.
>
> You mean the orange mask on color negatives?
>
> Some scanner software will do it automatically.
> Otherwise, there are a couple tutorials on Youtube
> if you look hard enough.

No, this is something Kodak sold "back in the day" and still may for all I know and was applied by a brush to block certain parts of the image from printing.  It was common in pre digital times.   I don't know if water will do it or something else.  I don't want to ruin a negative until I know how to remove it.

Frisco1522 Wrote:

> No, this is something Kodak sold "back in the day"
> and still may for all I know and was applied by a
> brush to block certain parts of the image from
> printing.  It was common in pre digital
> times.   I don't know if water will do it or
> something else.  I don't want to ruin a negative
> until I know how to remove it.

I was around in pre-digital times and never heard of it. The things I learn here!. Anyway, the first answer on a Google search on "remove kodak red opaque" says "It's water soluble." Can't hurt much to try that.

And apropos of nothing, a few pages down in that same search is the CNN headline "Kodak confirms it had weapons-grade uranium in underground lab." Spoiler: only 3.5 pounds. Not enough for a bomb. 

I have used the red dye to retouch large format negatives.  It is called Crocein and it is water soluable. I found this picture in an eBay auction as I no longer have a bottle.

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