Railfan Technology > Windows Update?

I am asking if anyone here can share their strategy for coping with the near-term end of Microsoft halting support for Windows before version 10?
I keep getting messages that the current versions cannot operate on my old Lenovo laptop (which has been pretty good at ordinary tasks.)
Do I have to buy a new laptop and software?

Time to upgrade - Windows operating system is a favorite target of hackers and bad actors.  Take action while you still can.  My recommendation is to buy an Apple MacBook Pro and their better operating system.  Yes, there's a learning curve but you'll have a safer environment with safe guards that will keep you running down the road.  Apple OS is a stable system that has less issues if you keep it updated.  Microsoft Windows 10 is almost DEAD-!

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am asking if anyone here can share their
> strategy for coping with the near-term end of
> Microsoft halting support for Windows before
> version 10?
> I keep getting messages that the current versions
> cannot operate on my old Lenovo laptop (which has
> been pretty good at ordinary tasks.)
> Do I have to buy a new laptop and software?

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I have to buy a new laptop and software?

You got more rational responses in the thread you posted in the Western Discussions.

I use Windows, MacOS, Linux and FreeBSD. That's my other hobby, retro-computing. Don't switch over from Windows to MacOS based on fear (support deadline), or ideological conflict (Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux).

Digital mapping outside the Internet, I use Windows - that platform did well with offline maps until Goole Maps and others became popular. Video editing, I use MacOS, even though I used Windows years ago. There are various command-line tasks that I use Windows, Mac, AND Linux. So I lack the brainwashing to be blindly loyal to a certain platform. :-)

I have a good speculation on why MacOS changed 17 times in 20 years (Mac OSX 10.4 to macOS 15) while Windows changed only 7 times (Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 11). Any accusation of my "Microsoft bias" will be shot down, because I handicapped Windows on purpose by including 8.1 . Technically, they only changed 6 times. In fact, Vista and Windows 7 are more similar than people realize. Vista's performance problems were "solved" when hardware improvements caught up, which is a fact not well-known due to the Vista marketing disaster.

Apple's "change every year" was a marketing gimmick, but it tremendously helped the costly upgrade cycles by Apple obsoleting older versions quicker by changing more often. This applies to both software AND hardware, and unlike Microsoft, Apple is in the hardware business..

I recommend people visit a real store and test drive floor models, whether Windows or Apple. If Windows 11 sucks, and Mac is better for your routine tasks, then sure, switch based on that. But if Windows 7/8/10 was useful, and you can tolerate changes in Windows 11, why switch? Apple hardware/software is much pricier, unless you are a retro-computing hobbyist with experience in finding value. And you have to relearn the interface when you switch. However, MacOS interface for the most part is more elegant, although there are many complaints from the Mac community for Apple making MacOS more iOS-like in recent years.

Those who are into nitty-gritty computing (command line tasks, automation, scripts), then MacOS and Linux are often better than Windows, since MacOS and Linux were built from the Unix operating system. Linux has a tremendous advantage in value, as it can run reasonably well on older hardware, and it doesn't "insanely"* obsolete software like Apple does. What's not well known here on TO is that some retro-computing Mac users got tired of Apple's rapid upgrade cycles and run Linux on their Macs instead.

Most security problems today happen on the "server end" or on web sites. It's not often your computer suffers from data breaches, but the money is in hackers targeting retail stores, rental car agencies, and "store fronts" to harvest personal data on servers. If you understand that, choosing "security" based on platform (Mac, Windows, Linux) becomes less significant.

A bit off topic, but it helps to "know the rest of the story."

* Those who remember Steve Jobs should know this phrase.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> railstiesballast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do I have to buy a new laptop and software?
>
> You got more rational responses in the thread you
> posted in the Western Discussions.
>
> I use Windows, MacOS, Linux and FreeBSD. That's my
> other hobby, retro-computing. Don't switch over
> from Windows to MacOS based on fear (support
> deadline), or ideological conflict (Windows vs.
> Mac vs. Linux).
>
> Digital mapping outside the Internet, I use
> Windows - that platform did well with offline maps
> until Goole Maps and others became popular. Video
> editing, I use MacOS, even though I used Windows
> years ago. There are various command-line tasks
> that I use Windows, Mac, AND Linux. So I lack the
> brainwashing to be blindly loyal to a certain
> platform. :-)
>
> I have a good speculation on why MacOS changed 17
> times in 20 years (Mac OSX 10.4 to macOS 15) while
> Windows changed only 7 times (Windows XP, Vista,
> 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 11). Any accusation of my
> "Microsoft bias" will be shot down, because I
> handicapped Windows on purpose by including 8.1 .
> Technically, they only changed 6 times. In fact,
> Vista and Windows 7 are more similar than people
> realize. Vista's performance problems were
> "solved" when hardware improvements caught up,
> which is a fact not well-known due to the Vista
> marketing disaster.
>
> Apple's "change every year" was a marketing
> gimmick, but it tremendously helped the costly
> upgrade cycles by Apple obsoleting older versions
> quicker by changing more often. This applies to
> both software AND hardware, and unlike Microsoft,
> Apple is in the hardware business..
>
> I recommend people visit a real store and test
> drive floor models, whether Windows or Apple. If
> Windows 11 sucks, and Mac is better for your
> routine tasks, then sure, switch based on that.
> But if Windows 7/8/10 was useful, and you can
> tolerate changes in Windows 11, why switch? Apple
> hardware/software is much pricier, unless you are
> a retro-computing hobbyist with experience in
> finding value. And you have to relearn the
> interface when you switch. However, MacOS
> interface for the most part is more elegant,
> although there are many complaints from the Mac
> community for Apple making MacOS more iOS-like in
> recent years.
>
> Those who are into nitty-gritty computing (command
> line tasks, automation, scripts), then MacOS and
> Linux are often better than Windows, since MacOS
> and Linux were built from the Unix operating
> system. Linux has a tremendous advantage in value,
> as it can run reasonably well on older hardware,
> and it doesn't "insanely"* obsolete software like
> Apple does. What's not well known here on TO is
> that some retro-computing Mac users got tired of
> Apple's rapid upgrade cycles and run Linux on
> their Macs instead.
>
> Most security problems today happen on the "server
> end" or on web sites. It's not often your computer
> suffers from data breaches, but the money is in
> hackers targeting retail stores, rental car
> agencies, and "store fronts" to harvest personal
> data on servers. If you understand that, choosing
> "security" based on platform (Mac, Windows, Linux)
> becomes less significant.
>
> A bit off topic, but it helps to "know the rest of
> the story."
>
> * Those who remember Steve Jobs should know this
> phrase.

I use MacOS and Linux....because they are based on Unix and that's what I like....actually MacOS does use a BSD based kernel so in a sense I am using that...sadly I don't have a computer to run a regular BSD on....or I would....or really would...Solaris....there's a sad loss...I could run it...but it hasn't kept up with modern hardware and I will NOT do virtualization.....
 

Thanks for the advice, still pondering.

No one has posted that there is an option to keep Windows 10 for another year with full security updates, etc., and for free.  That's what I did.  After that, Windows 10 will still be supported and usable, but at a quickly escalating price per year for a few more years.  Microsoft, of course, has not publicized that, but it is available from the Microsoft website.  My big issue with Windows 11 is that there are still programs that I use on a daily basis that will not run in Windows 11, despite the people who say that they all will.  In my opinion, the main purpose of Microsoft's release of Windows 11 and ending Windows 10 was to force tens of millions (and likely more than that) of people, businesses, and organizations to be forced to buy new computers and software.  Many computers in use today will not run Windows 11 satisfactorily.  I'm hoping that, within a year, the programs that I use that won't run on Windows 11 will be upgraded.  I also hope that the coming hordes of people flooding the market trying to buy upgraded computers because their current computer will not run Windows 11 will have subsided some.

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one has posted that there is an option to keep
> Windows 10 for another year with full security
> updates, etc., and for free.  That's what I
> did.  After that, Windows 10 will still be
> supported and usable, but at a quickly escalating
> price per year for a few more years.  Microsoft,
> of course, has not publicized that, but it is
> available from the Microsoft website.  My big
> issue with Windows 11 is that there are still
> programs that I use on a daily basis that will not
> run in Windows 11, despite the people who say that
> they all will.  In my opinion, the main purpose
> of Microsoft's release of Windows 11 and ending
> Windows 10 was to force tens of millions (and
> likely more than that) of people, businesses, and
> organizations to be forced to buy new computers
> and software.  Many computers in use today will
> not run Windows 11 satisfactorily.  I'm hoping
> that, within a year, the programs that I use that
> won't run on Windows 11 will be upgraded.  I also
> hope that the coming hordes of people flooding the
> market trying to buy upgraded computers because
> their current computer will not run Windows 11
> will have subsided some.

It hasn't been mentioned because the OP seems to be at the same inflection point I was at when I abandoned Windows....I have never looked back...

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one has posted that there is an option to keep
> Windows 10 for another year with full security
> updates, etc., and for free.

FYI, that was already posted in the thread in Western Discussions. A bit off topic there, but more people responded.

But people with less risky habits can use older Windows (Windows 7 seems to be the sweet spot), because support for virus/malware scans goes back to Windows Vista, and still free. That's much longer than "another year." Anyone curious can look up DEP (Data Execution Prevention) that was introduced in Windows XP Service Pack 2. That hardware/software feature is protection in addition to virus/malware scans.

So there really is no rush to update, especially Windows 10. Keep in mind that "security updates" that you mention are really bug fixes - sloppy software due to deadlines. Some "security updates" even have had bugs, for example, one recent update disabling some SSDs (Solid State Drives) on Windows 11! No hackers involved, just Microsoft's self-inflicted wound.

> In my opinion, the main purpose of Microsoft's
> release of Windows 11 and ending Windows 10
> was to force tens of millions (and likely more than
> that) of people, businesses, and organizations to
> be forced to buy new computers and software.  

With Moore's Law reaching a plateau, "faster is better" is no longer the playbook to entice users to "organically" upgrade. Apple already figured this out years ago, "free" macOS upgrades, but obsoleting applications and hardware quicker. Not necessarily a malicious strategy, for people who remember Apple's headaches dealing with 68000 --> PowerPC --> Intel CPUs. Apple's transition to ARM (M1 --> M5) has been made easier because of obsoleting quicker.

Current bait is AI (Artificial "Intelligence"). Microsoft got ahead of themselves with Cortana for Windows 10, the "virtual assistant" that was a failure. But AI is really about behavior modification, to persuade unsuspecting users to behave a certain way - individually targeted ads for starters. In a nutshell, AI relies more on GPU (Graphic Processors) than CPU to function better, and older PCs don't fit that bill.

<<< cross-post from Western Railroads discussion >>>

My $0.02...

Sidegrade to a Linux distribution you like, and don't look back.  I have grown to detest MS operating systems over the years.  I have to put up with them at work.

Distros like Ubuntu or Mint work quite nicely on 10+ year-old laptops.

But you be you.
 

I have two "active" desktops and two laptops that span 20 years of Windows. Point being, my equipment that could not be upgraded to a newer Win version will go, or stay offline. My XP laptop is used to program DCC model locomotives only - it never goes online. The newer versions of its software still work with XP, so I download the updates with my newer, secure PC, then transfer the updates to the older laptop with a USB.

One of my desktops can't be upgraded to Win 11, and it's expensive but useable graphics software won't work under Win 11 either, so after the free Win 10 extension expires next year, it will go offline and my other newer PC will be upgraded to Win 11 as it will remain internet connected. If I stay off the Internet with the old equipment, I don't worry about security issues.

So just because MS makes a new OS that renders your old hardware and software not upgradable, doesn't mean to need to trash it. You can pick up a inexpensive device that's Win 11 capable for online access and when necessary, transfer files offline from one to the other first, then use the newer device to transfer online.

Has worked for me and given me more time to use hardware and software that still works fine.

Bob P

Posted from Android

If your laptop is doing what you need, keep it.  It will do what it has been doing just fine.

Yes if it runs and does what you need no problem...do know that if Microsnot doesn't support it you may loose access to security updates....Windows is the most actively attacked operating systems, and more holes could well be found because the criminals know people like you still use your old version...keep antivirus software running and keep that updated at least. 

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/25 08:43 by engineerinvirginia.

Windows 10 will keep working fine. What you lose are the updates that keep it secure against hackers, at least in theory. 

There is a paid update service Microsoft offers that will supposedly keep your old Windows 10 system up to date but I believe this service only lasts another year. In my case, and I don't know what I did, I got an offer from Microsoft that gave me this service for free for a year. I do subscribe to Office 365 so that may be why I got that offer.

The other option is to upgrade to Windows 11 if your computer will handle it (my Lenovo won't) or buy a new computer. As a note, I have seen "work arounds" for getting a non-complying computer to upgrade to Windows 11 but I question how secure that would be. For me I'll use my free year of updates and deal with this stuff next October.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/25 08:39 by Railbaron.

My Windows 10 is deemed unfit for the upgrade to Windows 11.

I've been agonizing over what to do. Turns out that since I subscribe to MS365 (essentially Office software online), MS let me enroll in an additional year of security updates for a year at no cost. Not sure what MS charges for enrollment if you do not already subscribe to something, but do some searches online and see. Might be $30 for the next year or $60.

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Windows 10 will keep working fine. What you lose
> are the updates that keep it secure against
> hackers, at least in theory. 
>
> There is a paid update service Microsoft offers
> that will supposedly keep your old Windows 10
> system up to date but I believe this service only
> lasts another year. In my case, and I don't know
> what I did, I got an offer from Microsoft that
> gave me this service for free for a year. I do
> subscribe to Office 365 so that may be why I got
> that offer.
>
> The other option is to upgrade to Windows 11 if
> your computer will handle it (my Lenovo won't) or
> buy a new computer. As a note, I have seen "work
> arounds" for getting a non-complying computer to
> upgrade to Windows 11 but I question how secure
> that would be. For me I'll use my free year of
> updates and deal with this stuff next October.
>  

WIndows 11 is not so heavy that it wouldn't run on many computers but Microsoft can't support every piece of old hardware....some old bits have to be left behind at some point...that said...if you can get to install you can run it....often....that's where the tricks and incantations come in....I don't know about specifics...but I know it can be done. 

Even most Linux distros no longer install the 32 bit architecture by default. The day is coming for older
hardware though it'll all most likely last until the CPU dies or you need to install something which is no
longer backward compatible.

Out 

For the most part the OS allows MS or Apple to collect data about you, whether it's consumer data or proprietary data from emails and various files. Employees and Contractors working from home usually remote log-in to the Company Network that controls proprietary access, those users follow their Company rules about the OS required to ensure clean Remote log-in software. There's all sorts of Company safeguards, VPN, encryption and similar, loaded into the Employee's personal machine,, so those folks are not a good source of casual info.

Someone working on their own projects would be concerned about their Third Party Software, such as PhotoShop, or a Word Processing package, Financial or simple matrix style spreadsheets, architural design software, Mapping or GPS, Engineering design, etc. Recommendations for those S/W packages would be of concern, or compatibility with W10 followed. Those S/W packages may not work with W11 without a new purchase, they often work just fine on recently outdated Windows. Anybody storing on 'The Cloud' is simply sharing their files with the Cloud owner. Independent users with privacy concerns should be using a well thought out back-up system which often obviates many ransomware or malware threats. Any serious work related machine should not have anything to do with Facebook and similar 'Aps'. There are 'serious' messaging S/W that fall into their own Security catagory, encryption for example.

MS likes to threaten folks with dropping Security S/W packages or 'support'. Third party packages like MalWareBytes are often as good with slight nuances. MS Defender is an Industry Standard but is often slow or heavy handed. Stay away from Kapersky due to their location problems, just something not to get involved with. However a new online S/W package is a new viewer into all of your files. 

The Browser is another topic, for example Mozilla Firefox is not MS or Apple so often continues like a thrid party software with compatibility updates. They also collect info just like everybody else.

For me, stay with whatever keeps PhotoShop Elements running on the main machine until Adobe requires a new purchase. MalWareBytes works fine on my W7 Laptop although that's getting pretty ragged and noticeably slow, it needs to be replaced but works for TO and simple JMRI. There's also an offline machine working with an older slide scanner that's screaming for retirement, or maybe that's the cooling fan.

$0.02 but it is a complicated topic with many concerns.
hth.

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am asking if anyone here can share their
> strategy for coping with the near-term end of
> Microsoft halting support for Windows before
> version 10?

I buy secondhand or clearance laptops on a budget, and use the pre-installed Windows, whatever it might be, XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 10. My goal is to not spend more than ~$200, but not rush into purchase due to Microsoft's "deadline." I'd go ahead and start pricing for Windows 11 capable PCs, and see if you can get a deal from now until after the New Year.

I got a Windows 11 capable laptop around $200 more than a year ago, Windows 10 pre-installed. Clearance sale of older inventory. I did the free Windows 11 upgrade several months ago.

My Windows 7 PC is still getting virus/malware updates for free*, so Windows 10 PCs will be OK for many months, if not years, as long as your PC use isn't risky. That means you don't download that much software, and don't get click-baited a lot. So take your time to fit your budget for a Windows 11 capable PC.

I'd avoid doing workarounds to force Windows 11 to work on your current Lenovo - keep using that as is. FYI, Winodws 10 does "critical" updates every 2 months, and "optional" updates in between. Occasionaly, the "optional" updates will crash Windows, forcing people to revert to system recovery, so at the minimum, you have 2 months before going paranoid. :-)

There WILL be interface changes on Windows 11, so you'll be forced to change your Windows 10 habits. Not as bad as Windows 7 --> Windows 8 (which I skipped). Another reason not to rush to upgrade.

* Microsoft still supports virus/malware definition updates as far back as Windows Vista. I do the updates manually from Microsoft's specific support page for Defender/Security Essentials, no need for a subscription or one year contract or whatever. But this is different from "security updates" where they fix software bugs within Windows.
 

Agree there's some good deals on used equipment out there but make sure the machine is scrubbed for malicious or previous owner monitoring software. 

Either follow the Hillary scrubware video on YT or find a trusted repair shop.

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Windows 10 will keep working fine. What you lose
> are the updates that keep it secure against
> hackers, at least in theory. 
>
> There is a paid update service Microsoft offers
> that will supposedly keep your old Windows 10
> system up to date but I believe this service only
> lasts another year. In my case, and I don't know
> what I did, I got an offer from Microsoft that
> gave me this service for free for a year. I do
> subscribe to Office 365 so that may be why I got
> that offer.
>

In the past, Microsoft has provided security patches, free, for serious vulnerabilities in "no longer supported" operating systems.  Of course, past behavior is no guarantee of future performance.