Western Railroad Discussion > how do railroads keep track of rolling stock

how does a company keep track of it rolling stock when on other roads and can another road load their cars and use them???
do you pay rent or user fees???
stuart in iowa

> how does a company keep track of it rolling stock when on
> other roads

Normally, they don't. They just keep track of what railroad they gave the car to, and it is up to that railroad to then keep track of any foreign cars on their lines. More recently, the railroads can make some types of queries through the AAR's central reporting system and find out where their cars are. Normally, they don't bother.

> and can another road load their cars and use them???

It depends on the type of car and any special agreements they may have with the owning railroad. In most cases they have to return it empty.

> do you pay rent or user fees???

Yes, called per diem fees. If the owning railroad gives a car to another railroad, they expect the per diem rate to be paid by that other railroad until the car returns, however long that takes. The per diem rates are set by agreement through the AAR, and will be the same for all cars of a particular type, no matter who the owner is.

each train has a list that is logged in the computer and updated each time it arr/dpts a terminal. yard inventories are also logged in the computer. each time an event occurs with a car it updates the car history which is specific to each car.
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this tracking is further enhanced by the aei scanners which are located at strategic points along the right of way. car/eng numbers are logged and sent to the computer for easy access on any train.

The RR still relies on the conductor to report the delivery time to foreign lines including run through trains. For example when a train like the M KCKIHB runs from Kansas City, KS on the Santa Fe to McCook, IL to be delivered as a total train the conductor has to call in the delivery time of the entire train to the Indiana Harbor Belt RR. That would start the clock running on all the cars being delivered to the IHB. Since the BNSF already has a list of the train and even an up date going by the scanner at the switch to head in at Harbor BNSF field support can attach a time to the entire list of cars. That delivery time will be the cut off of the demurage charges of any foriegn line cars.
The same is true for even single car moves to other RRs or industry switching, spotting cars for loading/unloading, etc. Different RRs have their own systems. Santa Fe has had Car Location & Inventory Control, CLIC for a long time now. Each move is recorded by the conductor of the crew that actually does the work. In the larger yards the work is done by a yardmaster or similar position that is usually manned 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
We used to have to fill out a wheel report that would be turned over to the telegrapher where the work was done, at the end of our run or the first open station after doing the work. Now we just call in the car numbers, tracks, and time to field support. Many times this requires allot of radio traffic when some other train is trying to use the radio to make moves or listen to their Hot Box read out.
I have wondered why the RRs don't use the sattalite systems that the trucking industry has used for many years. It would need just a simple small lap top mounted on the locomotive connected to a dish, then relayed through a company like Qualcom.
BNSF has started testing a hand carried touch screen computer on a few locals. It is called Hammer Head. The conductor records all the moves made on the run and then at the terminal attaches it to a base wired to the main frame computer. The main frame down loads all the information and is then supposed to reload the hand held with the next train make-up for the next assignment for that crew. It is just another piece of equipment we would have to carry. Next thing the RR will have to do is give us a caboose to carry all this extra gear.
Inspector Gadget

Now that just about everyone can afford a cell phone with STARTAC or similar capability, all you need is an AEI scanner equipped with an output to the cell. Better yet, build the AEI scanner with a cell-friendly modem inside and a touch screen on the back.

railscenes wrote:
>
> The RR still relies on the conductor to report the delivery
> time to foreign lines including run through trains. For example
[snip]
> I have wondered why the RRs don't use the sattalite systems
> that the trucking industry has used for many years. It would
> need just a simple small lap top mounted on the locomotive
> connected to a dish, then relayed through a company like Qualcom.
> BNSF has started testing a hand carried touch screen computer
> on a few locals. It is called Hammer Head. The conductor
[snip]
> equipment we would have to carry. Next thing the RR will have
> to do is give us a caboose to carry all this extra gear.
> Inspector Gadget

Railroads have car accounting departments which keep records on their fleet of cars.

Virtually all railroads subscribe to a set of rules and regulations governing car service and car hire which are promulgated by the AAR. If you have access to an Official Railway Equipment Register, many of the rules and regulations can be found in the back under the title "OT Rules."

In general, empty cars may be loaded by the holding railroad UNLESS subject to a service directive. Car Service Directive (CSD) 145, for example, applies to cars assigned to shippers, agents or commodity pools. CSD 150 applies to unassigned cars.

However, most railroads want empty foreign cars off their line and back to the owner railroad as quickly as possible. The reason is the "per diem" or car hire rate. A 10-year old plain 50-ft box car may have a rate of $0.90 an hour or $21.60 per day. If the car owned by Railroad A is on Railroad B for 10 days, the per diem settlement (Railroad B to Railroad A) is $216.00. Multiply that by hundreds or thousands of rail cars and the cost is staggering.

Many shortline railroads have large fleets of cars. These shortline give permission the other railroads to use their cars as the larger line sees fit. The shortline is supposedly making money off the per diem rate. Some of the larger railroads actually depend on shortline cars when their own cars are in tight supply.

Incidentially, when railroads establish freight rates, per diem or car hire is taken into consideration. It is a factor just like fuel or crew costs.

Hope this helps.

Peddler

It is not at all unusual to have a page in your mechanical track warrants devoted to lost cars! As in, be on the lookout for cars UTLX 17589 last seen Phoenix, AZ. etc.
JB

UP's inventory based in it's TCS system, has multiple ways of updating locations of cars.

First of course is the manual entry of the waybill showing routing, release, and commodity. Customers can send this electronically via EDI or some such system. Sure beats faxing or sitting on a phone releasing cars.

Second is the conductors work order. This is the set of instructions for the conductor to pick up what cars where, and their set-uut destination. The conductor has three ways of reporting his work order. One is by faxing it to Customer Service. Second he/she may enter the work completed into an on-board ACTS terminal linked to TCS (only certain areas have this service running, i.e. Omaha, N.Platte, ect.). Third they can report the work in the Windows based ACTS system at the final terminal.

Third is the AEI reader. Once a car is physically in a train and passes a reader, the AEI reader updates it's location, and the trains consist. Say for instance MDMSS arrives in Mason City, and makes his set out of 20 cars. By the time the conductor gets to the yard office, the paperwork is already completed, and he still faxes in the work order for verifcation. As MDMSS departs Mason City, the AEI looks at the train again, and notes the consist, and finds the inbound conductor forgot to set-out a car, which is re-added to the train's consist.

When a car or train is scheduled by the waybill information to be interchanged, the AEI will see them pass the interchange point, or at least leave the UP system, and show the car or train as delivered, unless verified by the conductors work order feedback.

When switching the yard, either a Yardmaster or Footboard Yardmaster will print the switch lists, mark them and have the crew switch them out. Once switched on the lead, the YDM or FBY can key in the moves made, and viola, a proper track list will be had, in proper sequence.
When the FBY or YDM calls Customer Service to schedule a pick up, all they have to do is tell the clerk the track(s), and the computer does the rest. Usually, the cars on that track are already scheduled to a train.

Lots of stuff, but 99.999% of the time, it works. But one must remember the basic rule of computers........GIGO!


Ken
Mason City, IA

Yes, adding up a rate of 90 cents an hour is a lot of dough....but if Railroad A has 1000 cars on Railroad B.....Railroad B might have the like amount on Railroad A. Would it be a wash....or do checks cross each other in the mail?

Anyone know if these are amounts are settled weekly? monthly? quarterly? How would you like that job?

Peddler used the correct term of "per diem" meaning a daily rate for one RR charging the other RRs for holding their cars off their home road. I used the term demurage by mistake. I beleive demurage is the charge to the shipper/consignee for holding cars. That is why the interchange or spotting/pulling cars must be reported by the conductor and note the time work was completed. Scanners and other electronic methods are not always right at the location of where the work is actually done.
Deregulation has changed allot in the way both are billed, but have never worked the actual accounting of the system. I prefer the front line work on the lead, industry or mainline work.
Like Karldotcom it would be interesting to know the mechanics of how the RRs bill each other.
Inspector Gadget

karldotcom wrote:
>
> Yes, adding up a rate of 90 cents an hour is a lot of
> dough....but if Railroad A has 1000 cars on Railroad
> B.....Railroad B might have the like amount on Railroad A.
> Would it be a wash....or do checks cross each other in the mail?
>
> Anyone know if these are amounts are settled weekly? monthly?
> quarterly? How would you like that job?

I believe checks cross in the mail. Settlement of car hire (per diem) is done on a monthly basis. Car hire must be reported to the car owner within one month. Both railroads then have the opportunity to check for accuracy and, if errors are discovered, a claim can be filed.

Besides per diem charges, certain rail cars are also subject to mileage payments. For example, chemical company XYZ ships one of their privately owned/leased tanks cars via Railroad A and Railroad B. The tank car has a mileage rate and each railroad will pay (rebate) the mileage charge to the chemical company. In this case, the car owner submits a claim to each railroad.

The mileage charge only applies when the car is under load. The theory behind this is the railroad does not have to furnish the tank car so it pays the owner/lessor an equivalent charge.

Mileage charges can be a factor when negotiating freight rates. The shipper would get a lower freight rate IF the rate were negotiated with "no mileage payment." A simple example would be a rate of $3.20 cwt., minimum weight 100,000 pounds with full mileage payment versus $2.85 cwt., minimum weight 100,000 pounds with NO mileage payment.

Demurrage is an entirely different matter and is the most hated/despised charge assessed by railroads against a shipper or receiver. I won't even try to explain it other than a shipper/receiver gets so many days to load/unload a car after which demurrage charges are assessed.

peddler