Western Railroad Discussion > No Coal Export... Portland

link
http://daily.sightline.org/2011/09/08/the-risky-business-of-coal/

****'n enviromentalists

Hey if you like that publication, there's a link in the article to make a donation. Not!

Tom Y



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/11 12:52 by icancmp193.

Hooray for the greenies, the jobs will come to Texas.

If the Port of Portland had its way the ONLY commodity being exported from here would be bicycles. The Port of Portland's embracing of "community values" has been a great boon to the ports of Vancouver and Longview.

Easy to blame the environmentalists here, but sounds like the local municipalities made business decisions they felt were best for their communities, probably with input from local constituents. Isn't that what they are supposed to do?

Or, as is so often the case these days, should big $$$ drown out the voices of the little (green?:)) people?

jc76 Wrote:
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> link
> http://daily.sightline.org/2011/09/08/the-risky-bu
> siness-of-coal/


"The Port needs to be reflective of the community and its values."

The values of all the far left kooks who live in Portland.

Export coal is a fools paradise. It has also failed in several East Coast ports. Coal exports come and go, leaving brownfield sites behind. Portland made a wisr business decision. They will export phosphates--much more stable. READ the article before jumping to conclusions. Besides, a sustainable and healthy community is a GOOD THING.

Many ports and other investors got badly burned in the 1990s by coal exports that failed to materialize in the projected volumes.

I think a market mechanism needs to be worked out whereby a good chunk of the risk is passed to the coal export companies intead of being totally borne by the ports, the railroads and other infrastructure providers. If the export companies are put on the hook for a good chunk of the capital required to build the infrastructure and to tear it down and clean up after it afterwards, then I think you'd see more inclination on transportation and trans-loading providers to stand up to the environmental interests.

Best regards,

Rob L.

So it is better to let a berth sit empty, because in the future the commodity to be shipped might fizzle out? Hmmmm...... with a rationale like that we might as well never build or upgrade another port again. The only constant is change. Coal has been cyclical, if LAXT was still here now they would be rolling in the dollars....

If I have read correctly, Ambre is the one taking the risk in Longview. It would also seem that Cherry Point is no brainer, if coal fizzles out, it will still be one of the few ports on the west coast able to handle Cape Size Vessels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/11 17:12 by jc76.

jc76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So it is better to let a berth sit empty, because
> in the future the commodity to be shipped might
> fizzle out? Hmmmm...... with a rationale like
> that we might as well never build or upgrade
> another port again.
>
> If I have read correctly, Ambre is the one taking
> the risk in Longview. It would also seem that
> Cherry Point is no brainer, if coal fizzles out,
> it will still be one of the few ports on the west
> coast able to handle Cape Size Vessels.

I don't think it is that simple.

Setting up a berth for coal export requires investment in stockpiling facilities, conveyors and ship loaders. It requires control of dust, probably with water spray equipment. Given all the space required for stockpiling, it probably requires a new and separate berth of its own. Coal is dark and dirty, so it is only compatible with other dark (carbon) products. White bulk, minerals and grain would have to be at done at other terminals. And worst of all, if the coal volume aborts or terminates, then the whole terminal needs to be dismantled and cleaned up so the berth can be recycled for other uses.

Risk-sharing is a very reasonable thing for the carriers and service providers to request.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Actually the Cherry Point Facility is being built as a multi-use bulk terminal. Emphasis for now is on coal, but that is not all that is planned to be exported.

Link
http://www.longshoreshippingnews.com/2011/05/gateway-pacific-could-link-grain-belt-to-asian-markets/

Coal is currently exported out of Long Beach and Richmond in multi-use Bulk facilities.

Long Beach Link
http://www.metsteco.com/polb.aspx
This huge facility can also be seen on Google Earth


If the people of the Northwest do not want these jobs, Texas will take them. There are coal trains heading to those ports as I type...... and it didn't take years and years to get it moving... only months.
http://www.clinemining.com/projects/gallery.html
Above is a link to a gallery with the first Cline train being loaded
Houston and Corpus Cristi are ramping up for coal. Various other ports across the gulf are getting ready as well.


As British Columbia exports millions of dollars in BTU today from its ports... We spend our money on such profitable and stable industries such as this.....
linkhttp://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/08/solar-energy-company-touted-by-obama-goes-bankrupt/



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/11 18:08 by jc76.

You dont hear people in Tacoma and Seattle and other PNW cities compaining of dust or rail intersection blockage. These issues are nothing but a smoke screen for the baisic gobal warming issue that concerns greenies.
RB

up833 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You dont hear people in Tacoma and Seattle and
> other PNW cities compaining of dust or rail
> intersection blockage. These issues are nothing
> but a smoke screen for the baisic gobal warming
> issue that concerns greenies.
> RB

People around Seattle and Tacoma complain about dust and rail crossing blockage plenty, the latter being the cause of some of the delay in getting the Sounder commuter line extended from Tacoma to Lakewood. An acquaintance works at the grain elevator in Tacoma, and they get lots of complaints from nearby homes and boats about grain dust and diesel soot, not to mention the noise from switching operations late at night. Also, in Auburn, WA, BNSF and the city are spending millions to build a grade separation to eliminate the 8-minute wait for empty grain trains on the Stampede Sub to clear M street.

Portland had a brand new coal terminal that was never used.Also,43 feet of draft is nowhere near what large ships need.CJ

The potash terminal in Portland was originally built for coal. Not sure why it didn't pan out.

They are actually moving dirt as we speak in Prince Rupert to
expand Ridley Island terminal. They have signed contracts for many years,
and are expanding as fast as they can. Good revenue for the CN.
Sid.