Western Railroad Discussion > Montana says oil train data not confidential

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/montana-says-oil-train-details-not-confidential


BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana officials said Wednesday that they intend to release details next week on oil trains passing through the state, despite efforts by railroads to keep the information from the public after a string of fiery accidents raised safety concerns.

"Part of the whole reason the federal government ordered that this information be given to states is to protect the communities through which these trains roll," Huff told The Associated Press. "If there's not some federal pre-emption or specific regulation or statute that prevents release of this information, then under our records laws we have to release it."

Washington state officials also intend to release the details next week.

BobE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana officials said
> Wednesday that they intend to release details next
> week on oil trains passing through the state,
> despite efforts by railroads to keep the
> information from the public after a string of
> fiery accidents raised safety concerns.
>
> "Part of the whole reason the federal government
> ordered that this information be given to states
> is to protect the communities through which these
> trains roll," Huff told The Associated Press. "If
> there's not some federal pre-emption or specific
> regulation or statute that prevents release of
> this information, then under our records laws we
> have to release it."
>
> Washington state officials also intend to release
> the details next week.

BNSF has already told the states of Montana and Washington they "will take legal action" if those states release the information. This is going to get messy...


Allen

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BobE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> >
> > BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana officials said
> > Wednesday that they intend to release details
> next
> > week on oil trains passing through the state,
> > despite efforts by railroads to keep the
> > information from the public after a string of
> > fiery accidents raised safety concerns.
> >
> > "Part of the whole reason the federal
> government
> > ordered that this information be given to
> states
> > is to protect the communities through which
> these
> > trains roll," Huff told The Associated Press.
> "If
> > there's not some federal pre-emption or
> specific
> > regulation or statute that prevents release of
> > this information, then under our records laws
> we
> > have to release it."
> >
> > Washington state officials also intend to
> release
> > the details next week.
>
> BNSF has already told the states of Montana and
> Washington they "will take legal action" if those
> states release the information. This is going to
> get messy...
>
>
> Allen


State freedom of information act requests are often pretty wide reaching. You need really good reasons to keep stuff private. In NJ, all public employee salaries are now public info, and all state / county contractor employee salaries will be public as of January 1, 2015. Many contractors are very unhappy about that situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/14 15:01 by Lackawanna484.

In NY, we have been forced by a reinterpretatoin of the Freedom of Information Act to release environmental data collected INSIDE people's homes, even when we were only granted access to those homes on the condition that we would hold the data confidentially.

It has been a serious blow to my professional credibility, since people now know that I can't deliver on promises of confidentiality even if I sign a document promising that I will.

In this case, the RRs can howl all they want, but I doubt the courts will view their protests seriously.

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNSF has already told the states of Montana and
> Washington they "will take legal action" if those
> states release the information. This is going to
> get messy...

Too late now, but when BNSF was asked to produce the information, they should have taken a cue from IRS official Lois Lerner and claimed that they sent some emails to the appropriate parties but there was a "server glitch" and the emails mysteriously disappeared forever.

They'll learn. Eventually.

So far, the railroads' program of stalling hasn't worked especially well. As we've mentioned on prior threads, they'd be far better off to work with US Homeland Security or FRA on a secure network for first responders / offices of emergency management. Let DHS provide the veil of secrecy.

As it is, it looks like they're getting nibbled on the fees front, and pulling aside the kimono on the shipping volumes etc reports.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In NY, we have been forced by a reinterpretatoin
> of the Freedom of Information Act to release
> environmental data collected INSIDE people's
> homes, even when we were only granted access to
> those homes on the condition that we would hold
> the data confidentially.
>
> It has been a serious blow to my professional
> credibility, since people now know that I can't
> deliver on promises of confidentiality even if I
> sign a document promising that I will.
>
>
Such data, collected by or for submission to a public agency, must be releasable. What isn't releasable is personally identifiable information. For example, it can't say data collected at Bill and Nancy's house or property.

Elizabeth

Betsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Such data, collected by or for submission to a
> public agency, must be releasable. What isn't
> releasable is personally identifiable information.
> For example, it can't say data collected at Bill
> and Nancy's house or property.

This reminds me of the stonewalling the fracking industry has been engaging with the regulatory agencies. They don't want to reveal what chemicals they're pumping into the ground because it would reveal a "trade secret."

I find it rather interesting that California has signed the confidentially agreement but Montana won't. Is the state of Montana still mad at BNSF over grain rates and service to eastern Montana farmers??


Allen

Who needs the railroad, just ask the local railfans along the tracks. I am sure they will tell you.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Montana is mad at the BNSF for a lot of things but the State is spending a lot of tax dollars cleaning up spills and contamination from mining and refining left from decades of mineral extraction and processing. Some of the superfund sites run for hundreds of miles and are thousands of feet deep.

All of the major Montana rivers are flanked by railroads hauling or potentially hauling crude oil. Clean up might start quicker if locals knew right away what they are dealing with instead of waiting for all the Ts to be crossed and Is to be dotted to break out real information from the railroad or appropriate state agency before work can be started.

So the railroads and oil companies can't have it both ways. They can't tell Montanans this stuff is not out of the ordinary so it is perfectly safe then from the other side of their mouth say the product is so super special it's compound and properties must remain secret.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/14 15:14 by fbe.

Montana and Washington should allocate funds to paint large
targets on the sides of oil and ethanol tank cars.

That is a pretty worthless observation. May NSA pass your post off to TSA for further action.



Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Montana and Washington should allocate funds to
> paint large
> targets on the sides of oil and ethanol tank cars.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

"BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana officials said Wednesday that they intend to release details next week on oil trains passing through the state, despite efforts by railroads to keep the information from the public after a string of fiery accidents raised safety concerns."

Two serious accidents is hardly a string. Derailments are not fiery necessarily. This kind of publicity is inappropriate for transportation movements and releasing schedules is going to lead to difficulties.

If If you go back to the original post then take the link to the article and release from the government you will find nothing in there about notification of train movements.
It is more on the order of, "Hello, Montana. In compliance of federal regulation this is notice of our plans to ship 10,000 to 12,000 loaded cars of crude oil by rail in this next year. Placard numbers will be in the range of 1200-1325 which will include heavy crude, sweet crude with some amounts of benzeze, natural gas, etc, etc, etc. Routes will travel through the towns of blah, blah, blah. Contact phone numbers available 7 days per week and 24 hours each day are ooo-ooo-oooo."

I don't think this notification is as specific nor as onerous as some people are trying to make it. You have to read the original release.



http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,3403205,3403366#msg-3403366



a737flyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana officials said
> Wednesday that they intend to release details next
> week on oil trains passing through the state,
> despite efforts by railroads to keep the
> information from the public after a string of
> fiery accidents raised safety concerns."
>
> Two serious accidents is hardly a string.
> Derailments are not fiery necessarily. This kind
> of publicity is inappropriate for transportation
> movements and releasing schedules is going to lead
> to difficulties.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/14 11:35 by fbe.

The FRA says public release of notification is not security sensitive. MRL is already in compliance.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/feds-oil-train-details-not-security-sensitive/article_44b99b7a-23d9-5e03-8253-49083e00cb1e.html

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7