Western Railroad Discussion > CP Stockton on the PCS

OK, I would like to get opinions on the changes to CP Stockton from other engineers that run this route. (For those outside the Bay Area, CP Stockton is at MP 46.4 on Union Pacific's Coast Subdivision in San Jose, California. This location is 3MT/CTC with crossovers and a fouth CTC track coming in from UP's Warm Springs Subdivision.)

My gripe is how they have lined up the new signal cantalivers at the south limits of CP Stockton.

If you are northbound on MT1, the first signal that comes into view is the signal for the north leg of the wye coming in from the Warm Springs Sub. You have to force yourself to look at the signal to the left of the first one that comes into view.

Northbound on MT2, the first signal you see is the signal for MT1! And then have to delay your brain while you go a little further before you can view the second cantaliver.

Maybe I'm just skitish because I don't run it everyday like the Caltrain guys, but it just seems to not have been thought out very well; designed on a drafting table without asking a single operating engineer what he thought about it.

Your thoughts???



[Frank's photo at http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/56000/cmof.jpg shows the south limit of CP Stockton; from left to right, the signals control MT3, MT2, MT1, North Leg of Wye.]

They would never ask for suggestions for the engineers, if you want a prime example of that take a ride on the 50 miles between San Jose and San Francisco, only one signal has been repositioned and that's only because we told the JPB about it during a meeting with photographic evidence.

I find myself doing a double take all the time, your right about how you see things, first time the signal arrangements were in place I was on MT-2 and seen a red signal and started to freak out, then I realized it was for MT-1. Then shortly thereafter as I rounded the curve I seen a clear for my track, and was breathing a sign of relief.

I have operated on the MT-1, and just as you comment on, the first thing you see really is the signal for the north leg of the wye. I just don't like how all those signals are in San Jose, they will never get fixed unless something serious happens and then they may find a flaw or two in their system.

At night it's really easy to see the signals, of course you still have the same issues with the placement your just not struggling to see the signal with the sun in your face. Now the same problem of sorts lies with the North Limits of CP Julian with the new signal bridge accomdating four tracks, and the signal for the new yard lead in place and red.

Your coming around the curves alongside the CMOF facility, and the first thing your eye wants to do is see that red signal, because we were so used to seeing the approach or restricting to the right on the old bridge. Just looking a bit to the left, and you'll see the approach, but it's just that mind game and optical illusion until you get used to things, it's hard to get used to something when it's been a certain way for so long.

And here's a case in point with poorly designed signal placement, this signal was replaced after the JPB folks seen it during a meeting we had with them a while back. But the signal on the #1 track has yet to be replaced, it's next to impossible to see when you operate on that track, just gotta have faith hoping the last signal you say was right and this one corresponds to the previous, such as speed signals approach limited to limited clear.


Highspeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Maybe I'm just skitish because I don't run it
> everyday like the Caltrain guys, but it just seems
> to not have been thought out very well; designed
> on a drafting table without asking a single
> operating engineer what he thought about it.
>
> Your opinions/suggestions???
>
>
>
>
>

---

Unfortunately my friend, you are correct.

As far as I'm concerned, the signal system on the UP sucks! I'm sorry to use such a harsh term but unfortunately, it does.

I have bitched, moaned, griped, and complained about the signals on the district where I work. But, to no avail. I won't go into detail now because I've done so in the past. I just wish somebody from the signal department would talk to some engineers before the company erects or moves a signal.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. They can't do that. That requires planning, thinking, and forethought.

I think I'll be quiet now before my safety valve pops.


Steamjocky

The new alignment at CP Stockton is definitely confusing if it's your first time. Coming around that big loop, the signal for track 1 looks like it applies to track 2. You have to train yourself to look at the second set of signals, which are on the left, that apply to tracks 2 and 3.

You're correct that no engineers were consulted when designing this setup. We rarely are.