Steam & Excursion > B&LE 2-10-4 643

I was reading a back issue of Classic Trains, winter of 2000, on the B&LE 2-10-4's and was wondering if anyone knew the current status of the 643. Thanks.

Stored indoors, privately owened, at McKees Rocks, PA. Test fired only in the late 1980's. Restoration finished, locomotive moved back and forth many times under compressed air, but has yet to moved under steam since taken out of service on B&LE.

Does the owner have plans (or even desire) to run the engine anywhere?

pennsy3750 Wrote:
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> Does the owner have plans (or even desire) to run
> the engine anywhere?


I would guess the problem is in finding a host railroad to allow him to run it Not to mention the cost of liability insurance as well as FRA standards for steam locomotives which must be satisfied

> I would guess the problem is in finding a host
> railroad to allow him to run it Not to mention the
> cost of liability insurance

That's what I figured, but I was curious since I haven't even heard rumors of the owner(s) even approaching railroads in the area.

I wondered if the B&LE might be willing to let the engine back on her home rails. It wouldn't be far from McKees Rocks, even though it would mean a ferry move over CSX to Riverton and then the Union to North Bessemer.

#643 was restored prior to FRA revising its standards for steam locomotive inspection and certification, so it would now have to be "re-restored" to meet the new standards (boiler ultrasound, etc.) in order to operate now- an expensive proposition, assuming there was actually a place to operate it.

Does anyone out there realize, that the "great" Steamtown site in Scranton, Pa. has N E V E R had a ten-coupled steam locomotive??? Your next thought, is the same as mine... Keystone1

643 almost ended up at steamtown for the grand opening, alas that is even another story in itself. The B&LE wanted to operate to lcomotive at one time. However, given the private owner's history, they did not want him anywhere near the RR's property. The mantality that just because you have a locomotive to operate that the RR's should let you do want you want is a massive mis-understanding. Many groups have locomotives that could operate, but due to their attitude, they don't get the opertunity to operate.

Are there any photos of it from the test fire or of it currently? It seems like a waste of time, money and effort to see a engine restored and then nothing comes out of it.

This is one of two images I have of her
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,585251,585252#msg-585252

DMIR230 Wrote:
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> I was reading a back issue of Classic Trains,
> winter of 2000, on the B&LE 2-10-4's and was
> wondering if anyone knew the current status of the
> 643. Thanks.

Here is the other apparently she has been moved since this picture was taken into a warehouse.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/120000/597.jpg

pennsy3750 Wrote:
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> I wondered if the B&LE might be willing to let the
> engine back on her home rails. It wouldn't be far
> from McKees Rocks, even though it would mean a
> ferry move over CSX to Riverton and then the Union
> to North Bessemer.

The B & LE was taken over by the Canadian National Railways in 2004.

Dave

There are some photos of it on the "Fallen Flag Railroad Photo" site
http://gelwood.railfan.net/ go to the B&LE
tim c

The 643 story went something like this: the engine was re-built by a man whose name escapes me in partnership with Glen Campbell (no relation to the singer). The first partner died about 10 years ago, and his heirs had a deal to sell the 643 to the Steamtown Foundation for about $45,000. Campbell stepped in and nixed the deal, and evidently paid more than that to the heirs. The engine has sat, mostly outdoors and occasionally tarped, for the past 10 years since.

Since the B&LE was bought up by CN running on their lines isn't very likely, especially for passenger trains.

Does Glen Campbell still own the engine?

Chris.

Anybody know what the minimum curve radius is for this locomotive? Also, anybody know weight of the locomotive at the drivers full-loaded with a full complement of water/coal?

Regards,
John

The weight on drivers for these engines cited in "Steam's Finest Hour" is 354,300 pounds, or about 71,000 lbs per driving axle, just a shade less than for N&W 611. By comparison, NKP 765 places about 66,000 lbs on each driving axle. The methods for computing these weights seemed to vary from r.r to r.r. and builder to builder, so I don't know if this weight is for loaded-ready-to-run, but I suspect it is. Don't know about the wheelbase, tho it should be just a bit longer than on T&P 610, which did a bit of roaming in her 2nd career. The engine weight of the BLE is a little over 500,000 lbs, somewhat heavier than for the T&P. It would certainly take more than marginal track to handle this beast. If anyone has figures for the CB&Q 2-10-4, those would prob apply here, as the Bessemer was basically a copy of the Q engine.

643 is still around and store away in a warehouse in McKees Rocks. The current owner is Glenn Campbell and he was the owner when the 1st rebuild was done. The locomotive would need to meet the new FRA standards as it was rebuilt under the old rules. This means the 1472 day/15 year boiler work needs to be done again and a general clean up of the locomotive will need to be done to make things right again. Another issue is, when you don't run a friction bearing locomotive back and forth any moisture on the bearing boxes has a tenancy to rust axles to there driving boxes. AK This can cause hot bearings, damage and other harmful problems if not addressed before being moved. This means it would need a full inspection of all moving surfaces and would need to be cleaned in order not to grind themselves to complete damage.

Your looking at a lot of man hours and not including few hundred thousands to bring it back to life. The Locomotive itself is a wonderful piece of history and in today's modern steam would be the only 2-10-4 on the east coast that would be running. But the current owner has no means $$$ or the experienced steam crew to make this locomotive run. As other have pointed out its surround by unfriendly steam railroads at this stage in the game. The other problem is, would people donate the $$$ or help find grants to make this happen? As we all realize that is takes money to bring them back and money to run them. I would be concerned like most new pennies over time would this locomotive return back to the state its in due to lack of ridership. I know of people in the past who have tried to purchase the locomotive but the figure is so sky high that the money needed for purchase could be used to restore another locomotive back to life.

So, the locomotive sits stored away as a stuffed and mounted trophy for only a few to see.


ctjacks Wrote:
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> The 643 story went something like this: the
> engine was re-built by a man whose name escapes me
> in partnership with Glen Campbell (no relation to
> the singer). The first partner died about 10
> years ago, and his heirs had a deal to sell the
> 643 to the Steamtown Foundation for about $45,000.
> Campbell stepped in and nixed the deal, and
> evidently paid more than that to the heirs. The
> engine has sat, mostly outdoors and occasionally
> tarped, for the past 10 years since.
>
> Since the B&LE was bought up by CN running on
> their lines isn't very likely, especially for
> passenger trains.
>
> Does Glen Campbell still own the engine?
>
> Chris.

The 643 is currently conducting a lengthy Static Deterioration Test.

Rich_Melvin Wrote:
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> The 643 is currently conducting a lengthy Static
> Deterioration Test.

Very sad to think this engine has lasted this long, and now just sits and rots. It needs a good home, and I don't think Steamtown is the place.

This would be a good engine for Ross Rowland to get his hands on. B I G , loud and can pull anything you tie behind it. But PLEASE Ross, let us get a few shots of her lettered B&LE BEFORE you add your personal non-historical touches. Thank you, and best of luck. Keystone1