Steam & Excursion > Pan Am buying Chinese steam?

It was posted on Trains Magazine's Facebook page that Pan Am Railways is buying some of the imported Chinese steamers Ozark Mountain Railcar is selling. Anyone heard any truth to that?

MarcelineSub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was posted on Trains Magazine's Facebook page
> that Pan Am Railways is buying some of the
> imported Chinese steamers Ozark Mountain Railcar
> is selling. Anyone heard any truth to that?


There IS a 2-8-2 listed on Ozark's page - as well
as Narrow Gauge engines... (ugh....!)

It is nice to have a representative example here
but 'nough is a 'nough! I'd rather ride behind
a restored F7 then any newly imported Chinese
steam engine. Maybe Obama should offer a subsidy
for any American steam engine restoration.

We are happy to announce that Ozark Mountain Railcar has been selected as the official representative for the importer of standard gauge steam locomotives from China. Locomotives can be rebuilt your specifications. Price will reflect your modifications to the base locomotive. Complete packages available including freight & passenger equipment. Contact us for more details at 417-336-2401 or use the email form at the bottom of this page.

/Mitch

If true, the Chinese steam engine could be among the newest units on the Pan Am roster given much of their diesel fleet was built in the '60s & '70s.

MarcelineSub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was posted on Trains Magazine's Facebook page
> that Pan Am Railways is buying some of the
> imported Chinese steamers Ozark Mountain Railcar
> is selling. Anyone heard any truth to that?

Cool. Those SY's and QJ's are impressive machines. All the goodwill steam generates for about half the price of restoring your beloved park engine. The public sure doesn't care, in fact most of the folks I've talked to while watching steam from China are fascinated that it's younger than they are!

I'll take it! Sure I'd rather see American steam in action, but in my book Chinese steam beats no steam or F7s. Although I'm not sure NS is about to go get a Heritage QJ. But when you stop and think about it, the NS Heritage Locomotives look nothing like what the original road had, so a fleet of SY/QJ could could very nicely be made to play the role. Just look at NH 3025. Now imagine 20 Heritage Steam engines!!!!!

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But when you stop and
> think about it, the NS Heritage Locomotives look
> nothing like what the original road had, so a
> fleet of SY/QJ could could very nicely be made to
> play the role. Just look at NH 3025.

They ARE American except the 3025 which at least looks
American. Again, I think a representative sample is nice
but 'nough's enough encouraging these Chinese imports!

/Mitch

Most interesting if true. The Chinese/American debate seems to distract from the most important development: another freight railroad looking to run a steam locomotive. With a strong anti-steam sentiment on some railroads, it would be a nice development if one more railroad decided to embrace a steam locomotive as positive PR. Look at the Iowa Interstate, Alaska RR, the new NS program, even the CP program was a nice surprise a decade or so ago. Pan Am Railways has a lot of interesting trackage that hasn't seen a steam locomotive in a very long time. Having lived in central MA for a number of years, I can attest that New England is quite steam starved, especially when it comes to larger power. Would love to see steam on the old Boston and Maine through the Berkshires. Plus there's a nice B&M pacific being restored not too far away...

Perhaps instead of purchasing a Chinese steam locomotive it would be less expensive to provide funds and manpower for the completion of the Boston & Maine 3713 at Steamtown with an understanding that PanAm (sounds funny in rail context) have a priority for operation over its railroad - not to exceed 180 days. The locomotive would also have to be available to Steamtown during July, August and October - unless other suitable steam power would be available.

Those things belong either in China or in the scrap yard....they have no place here.

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll take it! Sure I'd rather see American steam
> in action, but in my book Chinese steam beats no
> steam or F7s. Although I'm not sure NS is about to
> go get a Heritage QJ. But when you stop and
> think about it, the NS Heritage Locomotives look
> nothing like what the original road had, so a
> fleet of SY/QJ could could very nicely be made to
> play the role. Just look at NH 3025. Now
> imagine 20 Heritage Steam engines!!!!!


I say bring on the steam! I think the SYs look pretty American, especially the way they did up 3025. I prefer historical engines as well, but I can see diesels any day of the week.

arrow611 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps instead of purchasing a Chinese steam
> locomotive it would be less expensive to provide
> funds and manpower for the completion of the
> Boston & Maine 3713 at Steamtown...

But that's just it...it's not. And now you're introducing complexity to both projects.

theACe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those things belong either in China or in the
> scrap yard....they have no place here.

Why? They're just as capable as anything we've made here, for a fraction of the price.

Again, whether the railfan contingency "approves" or not is immaterial.

I was not so wild about the Chinese QJ's until TrainFest 2011 in Rock Island. When I watched the one QJ take the two Amtrak units and the 16 or 17 car train across the Mississippi River bridge and west up the grade through downtown - I was very impressed.

I've climbed all over the two Iowa Interstate QJs (with permission), and the remarkable thing is just how American they are. It's straight US steam technology circa 1925, except that the engineman sits on the "wrong" side and the whistle is activated by a foot pedal and doesn't sound very American.

I think IAIS has done it just right, leaving one loco in its Chinese trim and "Americanizing" the other. I'm happy to ride behind either.

It's amusing how parochial US railfans are. There is limited interest even in Canadian railroads, although Canada and the US use almost identical technology. Mexico too, but I see almost nothing about Mexican railroads, although if you go down there you'll find AC locomotives, CTC, CWR, and big trains just like the ones we run here. Yet US fans dismiss the Mexicans as "beaners" (or worse) and won't even look at the trains running through spectacular scenery and over the highest bridge in North America.

I don't know if anyone ever has, but you could send a box car from Ciudad Tecun Uman, on the Guatemalan border, to Hay River, Northwest Territory on a single waybill. You know, guys, it's all a single network. Same gauge, same technology.

There was no need to bring that language into your post.

shoretower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've climbed all over the two Iowa Interstate QJs
> (with permission), and the remarkable thing is
> just how American they are. It's straight US
> steam technology circa 1925, except that the
> engineman sits on the "wrong" side and the whistle
> is activated by a foot pedal and doesn't sound
> very American.

Well there's part of the problem. If you are going to build/buy a new locomotive, who wants 1925 technology? Now if it was a reproduction of a C&O 2-10-4, or at least a 4-8-4, it might be more worthwhile, but in my mind they just are ugly, and unlike the operating US steamers, they have no history. Knowing how NKP #765 was built an hour's drive from my house, spent most of it's life running through my hometown, did it's part to help win WW2 and help keep the scrappy NKP in the black when others had already forsaken steam is as much of the story and excitement for me as the actual operation of the unit. No imported "Johnny-come-lately" can match that. For me, it's like a AC Cobra kit car. Yeah, it LOOKS and SOUNDS a lot like something special, but it just isn't. The money would be better spent preserving REAL HISTORY.

I am not fond of the looks of them but, they do go "chuff---chuff.

junctiontower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well there's part of the problem. If you are
> going to build/buy a new locomotive, who wants
> 1925 technology? Now if it was a reproduction of
> a C&O 2-10-4, or at least a 4-8-4, it might be
> more worthwhile, but in my mind they just are
> ugly, and unlike the operating US steamers, they
> have no history. Knowing how NKP #765 was built
> an hour's drive from my house, spent most of it's
> life running through my hometown, did it's part to
> help win WW2 and help keep the scrappy NKP in the
> black when others had already forsaken steam is as
> much of the story and excitement for me as the
> actual operation of the unit. No imported
> "Johnny-come-lately" can match that. For me, it's
> like a AC Cobra kit car. Yeah, it LOOKS and
> SOUNDS a lot like something special, but it just
> isn't. The money would be better spent preserving
> REAL HISTORY.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Knowing they're from a bygone era is half of what makes US steam special. If I wanted to see a steam engine from the bygone year of 1989 I'd go shoot a SD60M.

Pump

UPTRAIN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> junctiontower Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well there's part of the problem. If you are
> > going to build/buy a new locomotive, who wants
> > 1925 technology? Now if it was a reproduction
> of
> > a C&O 2-10-4, or at least a 4-8-4, it might be
> > more worthwhile, but in my mind they just are
> > ugly, and unlike the operating US steamers,
> they
> > have no history. Knowing how NKP #765 was
> built
> > an hour's drive from my house, spent most of
> it's
> > life running through my hometown, did it's part
> to
> > help win WW2 and help keep the scrappy NKP in
> the
> > black when others had already forsaken steam is
> as
> > much of the story and excitement for me as the
> > actual operation of the unit. No imported
> > "Johnny-come-lately" can match that. For me,
> it's
> > like a AC Cobra kit car. Yeah, it LOOKS and
> > SOUNDS a lot like something special, but it
> just
> > isn't. The money would be better spent
> preserving
> > REAL HISTORY.
>
>
> Couldn't have said it better myself. Knowing
> they're from a bygone era is half of what makes US
> steam special. If I wanted to see a steam engine
> from the bygone year of 1989 I'd go shoot a
> SD60M.
>
> Pump

You hit the nail on the head.

What it comes down to is: Are you an American history
buff or a fan of steam engines? If you are both, you
are only getting half the enjoyment you are after.

And really, don't we have enough Chinese products in
the US already? Employ an American - restore a 4-4-0!

/Mitch

Midwest is full of UP Consols and IC 0-8-0's, your American
might be simpler but just ain't quite 4th of July.

For UGLY how about the Reading T-1's. Give me a black QJ anyday!
Roger B