Steam & Excursion > .

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/20 19:39 by F40PHR231.

A few questions from the uninformed.

About how long might the process take?

How many inspectors will there be?

Does the same inspector(s) also go over the 3751, 844, 3985, 261, etc?

Thanks.

Steve

SGillings Wrote:
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> A few questions from the uninformed.

> About how long might the process take?

At least a year, maybe two.

> How many inspectors will there be?

Only one, the FRA Inspector when she is done. He will review all the paperwork and witness the hydro.

> Does the same inspector(s) also go over the 3751,
> 844, 3985, 261, etc?

Yes. Every steam locomotive in the USA, under FRA "control".

> Thanks.

> Steve

Not trying to hijack the thread but chris, whatever became of the F40PH you was restoring? any links?

Keep up the good work on 4449 guys...

William Hunt
Trenton, OH

The 1472 process was developed by a committee of some of the foremost players in the steam game in the late 1990s. The FRA codified the recommendations of this body as common sense, safety oriented regulation. The code of federal regulations represents minimum standards. An engine which conformed only to the minimum standards would be a poor locomotive indeed.

Best

Stathi

Posted from iPhone

I'm trying to figure out some of what I am seeing. On picture right, first is exhaust pipe of cylinder going to feedwater heater (but only from one cylinder(?) and pipe behind it is steam supply to cylinder. But on the left side the front large pipe connects to the blast nozzle, pip behind it is steam supply to cylinder. Small curling pipe is outside air for blower for start of fire. Or do the smaller pipes behind big ones provide steam to cylinder?

How come no exhaust pipe coming from cylinder on left side? Is some piping hidden by others? Somebody straighten me out because this arrangement sure looks different from engines I have seen.

I am interested in the shovel in the smokebox of an oil fired engine? I've shoved ash out of coal burners but I did not realize it was "shovel ready" for oil burners.

Tominde Wrote:
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> I am interested in the shovel in the smokebox of
> an oil fired engine? I've shoved ash out of coal
> burners but I did not realize it was "shovel
> ready" for oil burners.

That is to shovel the sand out of the smokebox, from sanding the tubes.

I'll take a shot...

The exhaust-steam flow to the heater is the pipe from the "blast pipe" (below the nozzle) in the bottom center of the the smokebox.
The path is up that pipe to the heater inlet (engineer's side).

Cold Water (from the tender)is pumped into the top of the heater (top is hidden), the internal spray head --- at the cold water inlet, mixes the water spray with the exhaust steam, and the heated water & condensed steam flow down the pipe on the fireman's side of the smokebox. The heater contains a ball float (like a tank in a domestic toilet) that closes-off the cold water coming to the heater. This prevents bad things that could occur if the water was to back feed---down the steam pipe to the exhaust nozzle and the valves & pistons (there are additional check valves in the heater tank that also prevent the undesired back-flow..).

The heated water is fed to the "suction side" of the double-acting high pressure pump (mounted on the boiler's exterior) ---- the heated water is forced by the
hotwater pump past the boiler check (a one-way valve) into the boiler.

One cab-mounted globe valve operates the entire system, so operating the pump is easy.

There is a skimmer-pipe inside the heater box that conveys the oil scum that floats on the heated water, I believe that the smaller pipe leading from the heater is the skimmer leading down to the right-of-way.

When cruising sown the tracks, the actual amount of water needed is small -- the needs are easily met by running the pump a a slow, steady speed. This keeps from flooding the boiler with cool water and make the boiling of the added water a steady, continuous process.

Overfire Jets..
You want to avoid the on-off cycle as typical with injectors ---- steam pumps work well: but, early attempts were not heated ---the perfection of a reliable,
simple system. It was an evolutionary process, but the Worthington 2-pump set up was the best available and the most reliable.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm trying to figure out some of what I am seeing.
> On picture right, first is exhaust pipe of
> cylinder going to feedwater heater (but only from
> one cylinder(?) and pipe behind it is steam
> supply to cylinder. But on the left side the
> front large pipe connects to the blast nozzle, pip
> behind it is steam supply to cylinder. Small
> curling pipe is outside air for blower for start
> of fire. Or do the smaller pipes behind big ones
> provide steam to cylinder?
>
> How come no exhaust pipe coming from cylinder on
> left side? Is some piping hidden by others?
> Somebody straighten me out because this
> arrangement sure looks different from engines I
> have seen.

Lets see if I can clear this up:

1) The two pipes in the background come from the superheater header and provide superheated steam from the throttle portion of the header to each valve chest.

2) The large exhaust steam pipe goes through the Worthington feed water heater housing then exhausts into the base of the exhaust stand.

3) Exhaust steam fro the valves enters the base of the exhaust stand via the passages in the main cylinder casting, and thus can NOT be seen.

4) The coiled small pipe is the steam supply to the blower ring.

5) Although you didn't ask, if you look carefully, right behind the exhaust stand protruding up with a chamfered end on the pipe, is the booster exhaust.

Wow, as soon as they opened the smokebox front, the smokebox sprung out of shape. Gonna take some work to fix that............

How did they come up with 1472 days? I know they just didn't pull that number out of their hat, providing they were wearing one.

JDE

Steamjocky Wrote:
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> How did they come up with 1472 days? I know they
> just didn't pull that number out of their hat,
> providing they were wearing one.
>
> JDE

Related to current diesel 92 day inspections. Then factor in the "old" 5 years for tubes/flues from the days of regular steam. The bigger main line steam operations worked with the FRA for a "60 months of operation" base policy, and the end result is 1472 days of OPERATION, or 15 years, which ever comes first.

Thank you, Jack.

JDE

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > Does the same inspector(s) also go over the
> 3751,
> > 844, 3985, 261, etc?
>
> Yes. Every steam locomotive in the USA, under FRA
> "control".
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Steve

Not to speak for the original poster, but I thought he was asking if it was the same inspector (the individual, not the agency) that inspects each engine. There are not that many operating steam engines, so it seems plausible that it could be the same person, but it is a big country and there may be quite a few inspectors that are qualified - hence the question.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > > Does the same inspector(s) also go over the
> > 3751,
> > > 844, 3985, 261, etc?
> >
> > Yes. Every steam locomotive in the USA, under
> FRA
> > "control".
> >
> > > Thanks.
> >
> > > Steve
>
> Not to speak for the original poster, but I
> thought he was asking if it was the same inspector
> (the individual, not the agency) that inspects
> each engine. There are not that many operating
> steam engines, so it seems plausible that it could
> be the same person, but it is a big country and
> there may be quite a few inspectors that are
> qualified - hence the question.

OK, I see what you mean. Each region of the country has FRA Motive Power & Equipment Inspectors, thus the "local" guy takes care of any and all locomotives (steam, diesel, electric, etc.) within his area. Periodically, each FRA region has a "steam locomotive school", where the senior man, i.e. "old timer" brings some of the newer/younger folks in to "learn how to inspect" steam locomotives. They have done this quit often in Portland and Cheyenne.

So, to answer the original question, I think; no it is not just one FRA Inspector. Each region/territory has its own inspector.

The restoration/rebuilding/recertification of 4449 being accessible to the public is yet another benefit to having this great new facility. The Brooklyn roundhouse has lots of memories but the new facility has so much going for it. And, new memories will be made here.

Steve Mitchell
http://www.yardgoatimages.com

F40PHR231 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> formeremployee01 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not trying to hijack the thread but chris,
> > whatever became of the F40PH you was restoring?
> > any links?
>
> Info at
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,
> 2885084,2885139#2885139
>
> Metal thieves found and chopped up 231's HEP
> cables two weeks ago, and I caught one of them
> hauling some away last week. Over half of its
> cables are gone, so the damage is done.


Being an ORHF member who is interested in such things, can you please elaborate and give more info on the 231's thievery that recently occurred? I thought that new facility was a secure facility?...

patd3985 Wrote:
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> Being an ORHF member who is interested in such
> things, can you please elaborate and give more
> info on the 231's thievery that recently occurred?
> I thought that new facility was a secure
> facility?...

The ORHF facility is indeed secure, however the F40PH #231 is NOT part of ORHF, and thus NOT in or at the new facility.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Lets see if I can clear this up:
>
> 1) The two pipes in the background come from the
> superheater header and provide superheated steam
> from the throttle portion of the header to each
> valve chest.

Yes
>
> 2) The large exhaust steam pipe goes through the
> Worthington feed water heater housing then
> exhausts into the base of the exhaust stand.

wcamp has it correct. The large pipe between the exhaust nozzel and the FWH is steam supply to the heater. All steam entering the heater (up to about 25% of the exhaust) is condensed - none of this is returned to exhaust out the nozzel and stack. The large pipe downward from the FWH on the firemans side is going to the hot water pump. If more water is condensed than the hot water pump can deliver to the boiler, this small amount overflows and drains to the track, or out the air vent at top of FWH.

In this video of 2719 starting out you see water venting in front of the stack about 50 seconds into the clip.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,2822785,2823327#msg-2823327

The other, lower, overflow in 2719 drains directly above the left front journal of the pilot truck. Poorly located, as it washes out the lubricant and the journal has to be drained of water daily and refilled with oil.

-LD



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/13 06:00 by LarryDoyle.