Nostalgia & History > 1950's Speed Restrictions

A post on the passenger forum referenced an article from the Wall Street Journal about trying to speed up Amtrak trains. The WSJ mentioned that federal regulation of passenger trains speeds began in the 1950's. Anybody know the when/why/where aspect of this?

Greater train speeds in the 50's probably had something to do with dieselization and electrification corridors attaining greater speeds than steam.

This question has been explored on T.O. previously. Therefore, I did a search on the "I.C.C. Order of 1947" which is the most relevant factor to answering your question. Bob


see:


http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1236153,1237183#msg-1237183


http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,774945,775637#msg-775637


http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,31147,31319#msg-31319

Thanks, Bob. The last post in the last discussion was the most relevat--1947 crash on the Burlington caused the ICC to act.Enjoyed your comment "a speed limit in ATS/ATC teritory was an arbitrary concept, especially if the train was late". Must have been the case when I rode the CZ in 1959. The train was 2-1/2 hours late coming into Denver due to delays on the D&RGW. The next
morning when I woke up, the whole train was vibrating and shaking. Lineside poles were going by so fast you couldn't count them. That was on the Burlington, Denver to Chicago. Managed to make up a half hour.

The UP Kansas Division Employee Timetable dated Nov. 10, 1946 has the following Passenger Train Designations:

STR- Train with Diesel Electric Locomotive and all light-weight roller bearing Passenger train equipment.

DE-PSGR - Train with Diesel Electric Locomotive and all passenger train equipment any car of which not light weight roller bearing.

PSGR - Train with Steam Locomotive and all passenger train equipment.

STR - Maximum Speed KC to Ellis - 90
DE-PSGR - Maximum Speed KC to Ellis - 75
PSGR - Maximum Speed KC to Menoken - 75
Menoken to Ellis - 65

Kansas Division Timetable Dated September 1, 1947 listed speeds dropped to 75 for STR and DE-PSGR.
This due to the FRA Mandate.

PRose

The rubber stamp speeds have been around forever. 30s at least. In TO, non-block 49 F & 59 P. In TO & block signals, 79. With the previous and Cab signals, 90. With the previous and ATS, 110.


Nudge

> The rubber stamp speeds have been around forever.
> 30s at least. In TO, non-block 49 F & 59 P. In TO
> & block signals, 79. With the previous and Cab
> signals, 90. With the previous and ATS, 110.


Not forever. 90 for psgr in ABS territory was common until the ICC
79 mph rule was enacted (some in this thread say in 1947, but
I am wondering if the change happened in the 50s). Until that ruling,
the fastest trains in the world ran between Chicago and the Twin
Cities. Milw, CNW and of course CB&Q all ran 90 in ABS territory.

I think all the 49-59-79 speed limits happened at the same time.
(The wording of the ICC ruling was something like "less than 80 mph,"
so the RRs chose 1 mph less.)

Allowed speeds in non-block territory were (still are?) higher
in Canada.

Best regards,

Rob L.

> until the ICC 79 mph rule was enacted
> (some in this thread say in 1947, but
> I am wondering if the change happened
> in the 50s

The ruling was in 1947, but the railroads were given several years to complete the added signalling, and the speed limit didn't necessarily have to drop in the meantime.

I understand that on the ATSF in San Dimas, CA, there were signs warning the public,
"100 MPH TRAINS". There's not even a very long tangent there, so it surprises me a bit.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > until the ICC 79 mph rule was enacted
> > (some in this thread say in 1947, but
> > I am wondering if the change happened
> > in the 50s
>
> The ruling was in 1947, but the railroads were
> given several years to complete the added
> signalling, and the speed limit didn't necessarily
> have to drop in the meantime.

True. I believe that AT&SF had until Oct 1952 to comply with the order. Bob