Nostalgia & History > Stairway to the Stars: Inside SP's domes...

More on the fabulous Sacramento home-builds, carrying on from this thread yesterday:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2041769

The first one, SP 3600 built in 1954, was the only one of the seven cars to have the bar end facing forward in operation. It was also the only one with standard-height windows; the other six, started a bit later in 1955 after 3600 did its 'shakedown' service, had windows that matched "Shasta Daylight" height. It was built on the frame of a 1937 "Daylight" parlor-observation, and also was the only car to come in at 81 feet and have a true "three-quarter" length dome.

An apocryphal story says that SP couldn't keep the glass in the Budd-supplied dome frame from cracking -- until someone got the idea to bash the car against a bumper to relieve stresses!

SP 3600 was built for the "San Joaquin Daylight", presumably to compete against the Santa Fe's "San Francisco Chief" and its full-length "Kachina Dome". It operated summers and winter on 51-52 nearly to the end -- although I didn't discover that until the summer of 1968!


1. SP 3600 is pictured here at Truckee, in the consist of the PLA's ALCo DH-643 excursion on Memorial Day weekend, 1968.

2. The other side while in SJD service, at Martinez. Both photos show the rebuilt configuration with stainless steel 'chewing gum wrapper' sides.
It's interesting to note that SP learned its lesson about frame corrosion: even when originally constructed with fluting, the flutes were applied to a solid side sheet.
Original "Daylight" construction had them applied directly to the car frame, allowing washing fluids to seep in and start electrolytic corrosion.
You can see the difference in the shadows and depth between the 'overlay' of the stainless on SP 3600, and the direct-to-frame application of stainless to the "Daylight" car behind, in Picture 1.

3. Here are those unique SP speaker grilles. SP 3600 may have been the only one of seven with these.
Notice the shattered upper window... and the cigarette smoke haze in the air!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/09 20:55 by Notch16.

---

---

---

SP 3600 had coach-style seats in the dome area. SP 3601-3604, built for "Overland" service, had a mix of cocktail booths and chair-like double seats. SP 3605-06 were built for the "Shasta Daylight", and the upper seating as built was all cocktail banquettes.

4. Here's the upper rear seating area on SP 3600. That was a fun seat for a teenage railfan and shutterbug; nobody to bother, and you could pivot and shoot over the train.

5. Here's SP 3604, built for "Overland" and "City" service but shown here on Train 98, same day as the last "Larks": April 7, 1968.

6. That's my Mom and Dad playing Gin Rummy. Sitting below the 11-foot ceiling was a treat, and unavailable anywhere else.


~ Bob Z



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/09 20:55 by Notch16.

---

---

---

I noticed in the Amtrak tread a Coors, and an Olympia back in SP days.

"Oly" was popular in California in the 60's -- they did a huge advertising push there. Good eyes!

1. And here's SP 3602 from outside,

2. With the same group (3601-04), pictured inside...

3. And one more for the pot: the one-off SP 3600.

All pics circa 1968...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/09 02:57 by Notch16.

---

---

---

Those were neat cars, the only place in AMerica where you could watch steam from a dome. I have one of those SP radio speaker grills, and three kitbashed N scale domes!

I did not know 3600 was a much shorter dome than the rest of the SP domes.

I have many fond memories of riding the ex-SP domes on Amtrak's Coast Starlight. They were kept in good shape through the late 70s.

Thanks for the photos and info.

Best regards,

Rob L.

My pleasure! I was really impressed with how well they were maintained during the end of SP operations too. And fortunately, several survive. It's not a perfect record, and they're harder to maintain and operate than Budd stainless domes, but they're truly unique.

I'd love seeing one restored to original status, down to the leaves-trapped-in-resin and the fluted siding. But I'm always playing that fiddle while others toil. I appreciate anyone anywhere who keeps an historic car alive, any way they can!

As mentioned in the earlier post: here, for those who haven't been, is a site dedicated to dome cars:

http://trainweb.org/web_lurker/SPf/

Thanks for the photos, especially the interiors for the 3600, the one car I've never been in - or if I had, I never knew what it was. Those "coach like" seats are something I do not remember in any SP dome, so I suppose I never did ride in the car. And since my only trip on the San Joaquin Daylight that had more than just an automat had a Sunset French Quarter lounge, I never experienced a dome on 51-52.

However, I did see it one time. It is right at the end of August 1970, and I'm aboard SP 102, the eastbound City of San Francisco. We've just crossed the Beneica Bridge, and down where the large automobile unloading and storage areas are today, there were yard tracks for cars going to the scrap yard to the west of I-680. I believe that the black smudge you see next to the ball and wing is the dreaded word, DISMANTLE.

And down there was not only the SP 3600, but one of the three ex-C&O/C&NW coaches (series 2216-18) that made holiday season appearances on the Cascade. Looks like it is the 2218. Those cars were notable in that there was a serpentine partition right in the middle of the car.

Lee Hower
Sacramento



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/09 10:45 by mcfflyer.

---

First time I stepped into one of the ex-C&NW cars I went 'huh??' But it was a nice break, with glass partitions as I remember.

One of the upsides of coach travel in those days was the serpentine floor plan, which meant that track and vestibule noise was around the corner from your seat, and only about 43 other people could bug you. The downside to rail architects was how difficult it could be to pass in the numerous hallways. Certainly an ADA issue as well. But now every car is a bowling alley. At least the Talgo "Cascades" do a nice job today -- with glass partitions!

The SP 2200-series was the fun catch-all: cars with off-line history, rebuilds, relocated T&NO. Usually a 2200-series car meant you'd be less comfortable, with poorer facilities. But in the case of the C&NW trio, not always.

Sonofagun... I found a pic!

These cars actually operated for a time in C&NW colors with 'Southern Pacific' on the letterboards.

---

Where those the same coaches the C&O traded to the C&NW for its RDCs?

Dave

That sounds familiar. They're a C&O-style configuration inside and out. Where's my roster??

Notch16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Oly" was popular in California in the 60's --
> they did a huge advertising push there. Good eyes!

Was also Clint Eastwood's choice of beer in his movies

Notch16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My pleasure! I was really impressed with how well
> they were maintained during the end of SP
> operations too. And fortunately, several survive.
> It's not a perfect record, and they're harder to
> maintain and operate than Budd stainless domes,
> but they're truly unique.
>
> I'd love seeing one restored to original status,
> down to the leaves-trapped-in-resin and the fluted
> siding. But I'm always playing that fiddle while
> others toil. I appreciate anyone anywhere who
> keeps an historic car alive, any way they can!
>
> As mentioned in the earlier post: here, for those
> who haven't been, is a site dedicated to dome
> cars:
>
> http://trainweb.org/web_lurker/SPf/

Actually were on their last legs in SP service. In 1970 on 98/99, flat top lounges had to sub more often or not or no lounge at all. Then some lady fell down those steep stairs in the front of the car, opposite the bar end, SP placed the car behind the baggage on 98/99 in 1970, however left the dome's placement the same in 101/102's consist because of the car's removal in Ogden

Bencia was one of the final resting spots for SP passenger cars. I believe 2216 survived to 1971, the other two were in the bone yard like you mentioned

The 2200 series, 2211-19 was SP attempt to find quality used passenger cars for the coach travel growth they experienced in the late 50s to 1967, despite to no advertising.

2216-18 were very unique. 2211-15,19 were just long distance versions of UP 44 seat coaches, some remaining in UP colors to 1971 and beyond.

I know that I have veered this thread away from the SP domes (that I spent many happy hours in) to the former C&O coaches. I looked in SP Passenger Car book, Volume 1 to look up the car number series, and saw something that doesn't jive with my memory. The book says that the rest rooms were in the middle of the car. Is that correct?

Although the SP car books put out by the SPH&TS are superb and are filled with car diagrams, unfortunately there isn't one for these cars. My memory of these cars, that made occasional trips on the Cascade when I encountered them in 1969-70, is that in the center of the car was a serpentine section to break up the "bowling alley" effect of the cars, and contained the water cooler. I don't remember the rest rooms being there. Anyone have any diagram they can look up or a memory they can access? I don't seen the usual hopper drop tubes coming out in the center of the car either.

One thing I didn't realize until I got the SP car book was that these cars operated in C&NW colors of green and yellow, but lettered SP for some time after they were acquired.

Lee Hower

No Lee,
There is no crapper in the middle of the car.I do not know of any coach built that way.
BTW I hope you get this information because it is way down on the list.
These are exC&O cars.The Seaboard Air Line bought 10 of them,numbered 6242-51.I did not know any went to the CNW or SP.
Great pictures and great information.I enjoy anyyhing about passenger trains,especially in the 50's and 60's.

Uncle Joe-just east of Tampa at ACL MP 869.8

Yes, they came in CNW colors and remained that way for a while complete with a gallon of CNW paint to match

So, where were the rest rooms in these cars if they weren't in the middle?