Railroaders' Nostalgia > Did you steal time? Taylor Yard-Shops-Bassett

Of course you did! How many times did you move back the designated switch so you could squeeze in a few more minutes? When business was good,
and we all knew it, things got kinda lax on ITD and FTD. The Company looked the other way! So we took a little advantage of things. Some Hoggers
were real clever at wording their MU'S. They could weasel 2 or 3 hours on one hour's pick-up or set out. I once saw a guy screw down the Feed Valve
just enough so the car toad couldn't call for a set-up. Poor guys had to walk the train lookin for leaks! Anybody out there guilty of slowing down so they
could get their Call Busted? Pick up 4 hours and then go to the top of the board? Or just plain pissed off about their call and didn't really want to work
for example, the Peddler?  Sometimes we felt that we got a raw deal on the call. Told you stand for "A' but got "B" instead. How about laying off on
the call? You never did that-aw come on and tell the truth! Stall around around on the out-bound engine lead. Stall around hoping the bills would be
late coming off the telex. That was railroading folks! That's what made the railroad special. And what you could learn from the next guy so you do
do it smarter the next time!







 

Oh, no, nobody would EVER do any of that. (snicker, snicker)

I will never claim he "steals" time but we have a conductor where I work who is nicknamed "Milkman". He can milk just about any job for 12+.

My favorite "steal" came when I was a fireman on a helper unit up in Dunsmuir. The engineer (can't remember who it was for sure, an extra man, maybe John Delgado) and I were called to go a short ways down the canyon and latch onto the head end of an eastbound that had fallen down. By the time we had gone through all of the preliminaries and headed west, the train was moving again, and it initially appeared that we would latch onto them in Dunsmuir Yard, which as you shall soon note, was a bummer for us.

As it turned out, though, the dispatcher ordered the train to stop at Castle Crags, one siding south of the yard.  My engineer was ecstatic when we got the news. The east switch at the Crags marked the top end of the South End helper district. The North End district started at the west switch at Small, one siding north of Dunsmuir. By the agreements, if you worked through the Dunsmuir terminal from one district onto the other, you got two days pay, minimum. Or, if there were rested men available, you could instead request relief at Dunsmuir and settle for a single day's pay.

After finishing with the dispatcher, my engineer immediately called the Dunsmuir operator and asked to be relieved when we got to the depot. It had been a slow day on the RR, and we got the call out of nowhere, after he had already made plans to go cut firewood, or something.

Now, the train's T&E crew were Roseville men, and due to the South End Pool being split between Roseville and Dunsmuir, there was always a little friction born of "preferential" treatment at either end by the respective crew clerks. The old Roseville engineer knew the score regarding helper districts and in a fit of spite, stopped his train on top of the signal at the Crags. When we coupled to the train, only about half of our unit cleared the signal, meaning that the CTC machine would show that we never fully entered the helper district. No possibility of relief in Dunsmuir.

The T&E boys remained on their power, and it was our responsibility  to chauffeur them to the crew change point at the depot. My engineer was not to be denied, however, so after the air test was made, he called the caboose and quickly told them that he was going to back up the train to clear the signal in the name of safety, and before the conductor could object, he released the jam, and we glided backwards to a few feet behind the signal.

Then the radio traffic began from Dunsmuir's chief clerk/agent. He intimated that TM J.J. Plank was pissed about my engineer's request (a lie - Plank wasn't  around) and that they were not going to call anyone for his relief.  My engineer held his ground, cited the agreements and after a prolonged back and forth, eventually won out. He got off in Dunsmuir.

I say that "he" got off because I, still being a rookie, was uncomfortable with the whole scenario and had not requested relief, knowing that TM J.J. Plank would later call me into his office to tear me a new asshole and forevermore harrass me from the weeds. (Bobby Miller, the young RFE, was too nice a guy to convincingly chew out guys - Plank always handled that.) My new engineer and I spent maybe six hours north of town before we tied up. I claimed two days pay, and after the usual denials, griever Ron Paletta eventually got me the money, while the engineer took all of the heat.

EO
This Is My Railroad
 

One afternoon in Sparks, the Corridor Manager (used to be an Asst. Chief Dispr.) called two pool crews to deadhead the 313 miles to Elko for rest to work back.  The only problem was that he or she had forgotten that they had already deadheaded East about eight hours before.  The crews they got were one prior right SP engineer with a prior right SP conductor, and a prior WP engineer with an extra board conductor.
​The SP engineer and conductor (me) were on TPA, while the WP TPA had run out, and the extra conductor was a fairly new hire who wasn't covered.

​The dispatcher's office discovered their mistake just as we were getting in the carryall, and called on the road radio, so they didn't get us because the carryall was still on the yard channel.  Then they called me on my cell phone to ask us where we were, and to have us turn around, because they didn't need us in Elko.  I told them we had just left, and they asked us to go back to Sparks and tie up.  We had the driver take us East of Vista (the end of double track) then take the first offramp and go back to Sparks.

​Me and my engineer showed a departure, claimed 313 miles per the ID pool agreement and tied up last out on our pool boards, which gave us another four days off.  The other crew showed a call broken in the yard, claimed 100 miles and went back first out after eight hours. This made them rested just about midnight, ugh!  Interestingly the Renzenberger driver called his dispatcher and pleaded "short turn," which got him put back first out.
G

ExSPCondr Wrote:
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> ​The dispatcher's office discovered their
> mistake just as we were getting in the carryall,
> and called on the road radio, so they didn't get
> us because the carryall was still on the yard
> channel.  Then they called me on my cell phone to
> ask us where we were, and to have us turn around,
> because they didn't need us in Elko.  I told them
> we had just left, and they asked us to go back to
> Sparks and tie up.  We had the driver take us
> East of Vista (the end of double track) then take
> the first offramp and go back to Sparks.
>
> ​Me and my engineer showed a departure, claimed
> 313 miles per the ID pool agreement and tied up
> last out on our pool boards, which gave us another
> four days off.  The other crew showed a call
> broken in the yard, claimed 100 miles and went
> back first out after eight hours. This made them
> rested just about midnight, ugh!  Interestingly
> the Renzenberger driver called his dispatcher and
> pleaded "short turn," which got him put back first
> out.

No theft involved; it was a gift.

TAW

Hey TAW, Very Good!

​Another good one from back in the day, and around Taylor and just a little East of Bassett:
​The Buena Park hauler was on duty at City of Industry at 4:10am daily, and was one of the premium jobs on the LA division.  The regular engineer would quite often lay off on Saturdays.  This paid a hundred mile deadhead out and back, plus twelve hours at local freight rate.

​Extra board engineers were placed on the board at the time they passed the yard board, but of course their rest didn't start until they tied up.
​DA Willadsen was famous for always catching the Buena Park on Saturday morning, and he did it by showing past the yard board a couple of hours or so before he actually got there. This got him first out, and held not-rested until just the right call time. Then he would tieup so he wouldn't be rested until exactly the right time for the call for the deadhead.

Many years ago while on the extra board (I actually preferred the extra board for a long time) I got called for an hours of service relief to go out and get a train at Dougren, about 20 miles "west" of Eugene, and bring it into town. We were also told to check with the manager on-duty before tying up because we might have to relieve a second train. The manager on this day was a real idiot and he felt the only way for the company to get their money's worth out of a crew was to keep them for 12 hours if possible.

We came on-duty and checked on where the train was. It was closely approaching Dougren and our ride is already waiting so my conductor and myself decide we'll "expedite" this relief in the hopes we can get a super short day. We took off within 15 minutes or so of being on duty, went to Dougren to relieve the crew minutes after they stopped, and were back in Eugene before we were even 1-1/2 hours on-duty. We yarded the train and went to the office. Before talking to the manager we checked the computer to see if there were any other trains on "short time" - there were none we could find. With this information we went to see the manager assuming he'd just have us go home since there was no legitimate need for us.

We go into the manager's office to verify we can tie up and go home for the day. He starts on the big routine about how he can't make that call but he'll check with the corridor manager. He tells us to grab some coffee and he'll let us know in a few minutes. After about 15 minutes he comes into the crew room and tells us there's a train about to leave Portland that's already on short time. In reality they could easily make the run in less than 3 hours with delays if they want. He tells us that we can go home if we want and come back around 4 pm or so to see how it's doing. Whatever - he's the boss so we both go home and we both know he didn't call anybody; he did this move on his own as that was the crap he'd pull.

We come back to the yard and the train is getting close but is still on "short time". We also knew many Portland crews would drag things out for the overtime so we figured they might actually die just outside the yard or right at the yard switch to enter the yard. Instead they made it into the "Departure Yard" at Eugene and died there so all we had to do was get on and drag it from the Departure Yard into the Receiving Yard, about 6000 feet, and tie everything down. Sounds good, we got 12 hours; a basic day plus 4 hours overtime - or did we? <G>

This manager screwed up. He didn't realize my conductor and myself were pre-85 SP guys so that entire time we were at home wasting the day we were getting paid FTD; post-85 guys didn't get FTD. Sure, we made a road trip in less than 1-1/2 hours out of our 12-hours but the rest of the time was all FTD - we loved it and I assume at some point that manager found out it would have been less expensive to send us home and call a second crew if needed. Oh, and because we weren't released we also kept the shuttle van and that driver got waiting time also - everybody came out except that manager.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/16 11:53 by Railbaron.

Railbaron, can I see all your FTD and raise you six time claims?

​One day in 1989 while working Roseville to Sparks, we went on duty in Roseville at 10pm to get a train out of the "rockpile" for Sparks.  This required getting the power out of the roundhouse and backing it over to where the train was.  The engineer asked me if I would mind riding the rear unit so he could check the speedometer on what would be our lead unit.
​Sure enough, on the trip over, the speedometer doesn't work.  Wes calls the roundhouse, and they come out and change the speedo head.  Our next move is about a mile and a half up track 21 to get to the East end of the departure yard.  Well, the speedo still doesn't work, so we call the RH again.  This time they change the axle drive, and tell us it will be allright now.  By now its midnight, and on duty opposite us in the 50 yard are the hot Chicago, an empty grain, and an empty coal.

​They tell us we have a highball out the Big Reno and we take off only to stop when the rear end clears Berry St bcause the speedometer STILL doesn't work.  Now we have a manager up in the cab with the roundhouse, and we have three crews blocked behind us.  This time they change the cable between the axle drive and the head,  and turn the drive while its off the axle, and the speedo works.

​Now its 1am, and the manager figures we were screwing him by causing all this delay, so he busts our call and sends us home.

​Remember its 1am, and you can send me home with a hundred miles at that time of night, to be 1st out at 9am any time!  Then he has a crew off of the first train we have blocked behind us come up and take our train, and calls another crew for that train.

We're all pre '85, so we get the arbitraries,  ​and the three crews on duty behind us all made Sparks before 10am, which paid us 100 miles each!
​Then, the crew called to take the train that was left by the crew that took our train made Sparks in the 9 hours left on our hours of service, as well as the next train called about 7am.

​The three trains that were on duty while we were made Sparks before 10a, which paid us 100 miles each.  Then, the two trains that were called after we had four hours off, but not eight, made Sparks yard limits in the nine hours we had left to work, which paid us 50 miles each.
​That was a pretty good evening, we ended up getting a total of 500 miles for 3 hours on duty, and the manager thought he screwed us!
G 

ExSPCondr Wrote:
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> Railbaron, can I see all your FTD and raise you
> six time claims?

Oh, man, you got me beat hands down - time for me to fold. But you did bring a HUGE smile to my face as I read that awesome tale. The good old days!
 

Mike, my story was after UP took over the SP so it had nothing to do with SP but that really doesn't matter. But once again this is a case of "management" blaming the "agreement employees" for all the railroad's ills. Certainly management had no fault in the decisions they made in a company's demise, right?

There was an agreement that called for certain things to happen or not happen. An agreement is something BOTH​ parties enter into. If you have managers who are ignorant of the agreement and shoot from the hip and then have claims paid as a a result how is that the employees fault? Think of the agreement as a rule book the company must follow. If the company violates a "rule" they get disciplined for it just the same as an employee would get disciplined for violating the company's rule book. It was, and is, very easy to stop these claims - know and comply with the agreement. Oh, in case you missed it, a huge percentage of claims never did get paid even though the agreement was violated.

​I won't deny there was foot dragging by certain crews mad at calls but I don't think that was as widespread as it sounds, at least from what I saw. And in those cases why weren't managers more active in expediting the movement? Many times this "foot dragging" was the result of the company not having the train or power ready when the train was called. A classic case of this was a situation in Roseville where we were called for a train, got the power on and air tested, and sat until relieved over 8 hours later. We got our rest and got called to relieve the crew that relieved us and they hadn't moved the train either. I suppose you're going to say we penalized the company on our claims for basic days, both crews, for dragging our feet and not moving the train? And I'm sure stuff like this happened many times all over not only the SP but other companies as well. 

​The bottom line is there is enough "fault" for everybody, agreement and non-agreement, to take responsibility for.

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/16 07:09 by Railbaron.

Agree.. both sides guilty of the same crime

Railbaron:   Ah yes, the UP melt-down.

mdo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, sure...the good old days.  Most of the
> "good" Trainmasters knew all of these tricks and
> many more.   Now believe it or not, these tricks
> helped to hasten the death of the SP!!!  I often
> think that the UP's unwillingness to fall for
> these pocket lining tricks to the extent that they
> catch them is one of the reasons that old heads
> dislike the yellow peril..  You all helped to
> kill your own gravy train
>
> mdo

I hope you are smart enough to understand if payroll didn't screw with our paychecks on an almost weekly/by-weekly basis then much of this stuff wouldn't happen.  Nothing worse than to have to fight to get what you have coming to you.  The other "trick" I fell for once being done to me by an official was that official said he would make sure I would get a deadhead home for the holiday if I would just please get this train to Toledo.  He lied.  Come time to get the deadhead we couldn't get in touch with that a$$hole official and screw management put us to bed. I was new and wanted to help out.  I never helped them out again.  That is NOT to say I didn't do my job.  I never stepped up for them again unless I had to.  As far as I am concerned the railroad still owes me money I'll never get, but I got some of it back.   

mdo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, sure...the good old days.  Most of the
> "good" Trainmasters knew all of these tricks and
> many more.   Now believe it or not, these tricks
> helped to hasten the death of the SP!!!  I often
> think that the UP's unwillingness to fall for
> these pocket lining tricks to the extent that they
> catch them is one of the reasons that old heads
> dislike the yellow peril..  You all helped to
> kill your own gravy train
>
> mdo

OK Mike, you started it... Oh never mind, it's not worth wasting my breath.

EO

I only stole the time they stole from me.  And I still lost.

Mike, I worked the district next to you when you were in Colton, (CofI) I worked the district next to you when you were at Oakland, (Surf)  and I worked for you as a TM/ATK.
I watched the SP keep an Asst. Supt/Mechanical who got drunk as soon as he went out to a derailment, and wasn't seen again until it was over.
I suggested to him that we turn the two 150 ton cranes coming from San Leandro for a derailment at Chorro around, because we didn't need them. He said he was going to wait until things cleared up.
An hour later we had 9 of the 11 cars re-railed,  a car of panels and a Burro crane, as well as the contractor's dozers.  I asked him again if he would turn the cranes around, and he wanted to know "who the F are you?"  Bill Giles took me by the arm and said "Its his derailment, lets go," and we did.  That was Friday evening of a holiday weekend.

Tuesday morning he comes into the telegraph office in SLO and asks "Where are my 20 empty flatcars?"  The operator asks "what 20 flatcars?"  "Why the 20 flatcars I ordered on Friday!"  "There aren't any flatcars here."  So he calls the car distributor.  "Where are my 20 flatcars?"  "Well lets see, 3 are in the departure yard at West Colton, 7 are in the receiving yard at WC, 1 is on the inbound Industry hauler, and the rest are still on spot in various industries." "WHAT!  I told you to order me 20 flatcars!"  "I did, you ordered 20 flatcars, and I pended you 20 flatcars!  You didn't tell me to go in the departure track at WC and re-tag a block of 20 empty flatcars from Eugene to SLO!"
So, he goes and releases the two Bigge 150 ton cranes that had sat at the Motel Inn from Friday night until Tuesday morning without ever doing anything.  I understand the bill was $5500 in 1978 dollars.

In 1984 I have to work for him, because the new Western Divn Supt wanted our Atk Mechanical Manager, and they didn't have a place for him, so they made a swap.  The first time I called him to report problems with an Amtrak engine, I got: "Why are you calling me?"  "That's what we're told to do."  "Call the roundhouse!"
The next time I had a freight train derailment in front of me on a weekend, and we were going to be delayed several hours, I called the SFO operator to find out that that the SP/ATK manager on duty that weekend wasn't a manager but a clerk, said manager didn't work his weekends on duty.

Oh cripes.

How's about I buy everyone a Scotch and water, or better: two.

Mike, you're working too hard, old man.

EO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/16 17:14 by hogheaded.

I guess you could call this a "Slight of Hand" move...or "When Opportunity Knocks"...
Back in the mid 80's, there was a recession, and a lot of San Joaquin engineers were cut back to fireman. I was one of them... Every one of the Gemco Locals and the GM Plant jobs had,  in essence, two qualified engineers working each job. This was great for us, account we could split the work. Somedays the engineer would go home early, or show up a couple of hours late, and I would do the same, alternatively. And just in  case there was "an incident" we had each others phone number so we could hightail it back to the yard just  incase we had to fill out a 2611 (accident form). This went on for months...we were all loving it! Unfortunately, the Trainmaster at the time, Schnoblen, was pissed off at the fact he had all these "Featherbedders" on his jobs. So one day, as I came into the yard office to tie up, I and all the other fireman, had notes to call the crew dispatcher...not a good sign! Well. Schnoblen figured out how to get rid of all of us fireman with one simple phone call. He happened to be friends with the Trainmaster up in Fresno (the San Joaquin Division covered from Los Angeles to Fresno). He found out that there was an engineer shortage in Fresno, so called the crew dispatcher and offered our services to be augmented to Fresno to protect the engineers extra board. WTF!?! I broke out in a cold sweat because I live in Burbank...never been to Fresno...had no desire to go there! Here's where it gets interesting...Since we were being augmented as "engineers", not fireman, any of us could now work any job on the San Joaquin Division as an engineer. Sooo, I started looking around, and found out that the Burbank/Glendale Switcher...an afternoon yard job on duty at Taylor Yard, had been going "No Bid" for months, because yard jobs didn't pay all that well. Since I was the senior fireman at Gemco, I knew that since I was "Set up" as an engineer now, I could place myself on that job..."on the no bid". This is exactly what I did, and it paid off like a slot machine! Now, it used to be when we worked "outside locals" such as Gemco or Oxnard, we got compensated an extra days pay (100 miles) for going, or deadheading to those jobs. And when we were released off the job, we got another 100 mile deadhead back to LA. So, on a one day stand, we could make three days pay! WHAT A GREAT JOB!
Anyway, before I called the crew dispatcher and placed myself on that job, I filled out my 100 mile DH from Gemco to LA, and then filled out a DH from LA to Fresno, which was about 300 miles. And even though I never left my house, this was all legal because the Company augmented us. Unfortunately, because I made a "seniority move" by placing myself on the Burbank switcher, I couldn't claim the DH miles back from Fresno. But I was more than happy to give that up, not having to go to Fresno.
As it turned out, of the 6 or 8 firemen that were augmented, only one actually went. The knucklehead trainmasters didn't realize that none of the LA guys having never worked in Fresno, weren't "qualified" to work any of the jobs...
So about a week later, they cancelled the augmentation. But, I had the option to stay on my job because it had gone no bid...which I did.
Sometimes you do what you gotta do...
 

hogheaded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh cripes.
>
> How's about I buy everyone a Scotch and water, or
> better: two.
>
> Mike, you're working too hard, old man.
>
> EO

Thanks for the offer,  I will settle for just a club soda.  Maybe I am letting a little of my bitterness show through, I try not to. Or maybe just a bad day.  Glad that three of you carried my original rant forward.  I notice that the original post disappeared (not me).  Wish I had held my tongue in the first place.  Sometime I will relate what we switchman did when a yardmaster gave us a late move and screwed us out of a chance to double, or just out of a quit back in the 16 hour days. It does sometimes depend on which side of the fence you are looking from.  Please forgive me.