Model Railroading > Tangent Scale Models Hopper Quality Problem

Has anyone had a problem with the new Tangent Scale Model HO Hoppers? I just received 3 brand new NP hoppers and the walkways across the top of the cars are bulged (see photos) on all 3 cars. I will send Tangent an email on their website today, but just thought I'd check to see if anyone else was having the same quality problem with their hoppers and I am.

Any recommendations on how to fix the problem? I am thinking about just cutting the walkway where the bulge is and hope for the best on how they look when I'm finished.

Other than that, they are great looking models!

Mike

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Never had that problem with Tangent, but do seem to recall a similar issue with another manufacturer. I believe it had something to do with the cars being shipped in extreme cold or heat. The metal and plastic don't expand and contract at the same rate, and it causes the walkways to buckle. In some cases, simply allowing the car to sit and "acclimate" to your layout room temperature fixed it.

Instead of cutting the walkways, I would be more inclined to try and free up one end of the walkway (from where it has lifted to the closest end of the car), then ACC it back in place (flat) starting from the middle of the car to the end.

Posted from Android

Why should you have to repair it yourself, after you already spent 35/40 dollar per car.  Send it back to Tangent.

The other manufacturer I know to have had this problem was Intermountain, for the stated reason.

Detaching and re-gluing was a perfectly satisfactory solution for me.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/17 09:42 by toledopatch.

That's why it's important to prep the surface before gluing. I have a 4740 SCL yella hopper with the same problem and I'll reglue it before dealing with shipping.

Posted from Android

The problem is entirely weather related.
Take walkway off with an exacto blade and use hypo cement,canopy glue, which will hold but has some elasticity to it which acc has none. Used numerous times with total success!

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/17 14:31 by JohnO.

I have ExactRail and Athearn cars that do the same thing.      It's not that scary, very easy to pry off the entire running board and reglue.  

I have 40-50 Intermountain cars with this problem. Not really looking forward to the repair tasks........................................
toledopatch Wrote:
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> The other manufacturer I know to have had this
> problem was Intermountain, for the stated reason.
>
> Detaching and re-gluing was a perfectly
> satisfactory solution for me.
>  

My intermountains have done that. Some years after I got them.

These are easy fix's and it happens on every covered hopper I have ever owned.

Take an exacto knife and carefully pop up the walkway on the side that is popping up only. Just place the exacto under the support under the walkway and apply light pressure and it will pop up. Do the area from the pop up to the closest edge of the car.(length wise) Once u have done this, all the tension will be released and the walkway will just lay down flat nicely.  Add a some amount of CA where the walkway touch's the support and add accelerator and just work your way down until the walkway is re glued and u are done. In the past I used to try and just re glue the bulged part but there is a built up tension that makes it hard for it to sit evenly and it usually just repops up over time. With patience, u can do these in 5 minutes. No need to send back the car. Additional cost and possibly more damage. This is easy stuff. 

Bruce

It's so easy to say "send them back to Tangent", but have you thought of the consequences?  First off, the shipping will probably be up to you and when that's done, what if Tangent is out of stock, or if in stock, all the rest have the same problem?  Much easier to fix it yourself and maybe enlarge some of the holes to give the roofwalk a little slack.  Canopy glue is useful too and flexes more than ACC.  If you really want and need these cars, it would be a better alternative.

I agree that sending back to the manufacturer is a risky venture - but there is frustration in paying a premium price for a freight car that requires additional attention by the modeler. IMO, if I pay $40 bucks for a freight car, I shouldn't have to do a thing to it after I take it out of the box.

bigkidpgh Wrote:
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> I agree that sending back to the manufacturer is a
> risky venture - but there is frustration in paying
> a premium price for a freight car that requires
> additional attention by the modeler. IMO, if I pay
> $40 bucks for a freight car, I shouldn't have to
> do a thing to it after I take it out of the box.

The fact that more than one manufacturer has had this issue says more to me about the inherent difficulty of shipping models made of both plastic and metal via methods that lack temperature control, but frankly I don't expect Intermountain or ExactRail or anybody else to hire insulated containers for their shipments. Fixing this problem is not a major inconvenience.

I like the responses I am reading and see constructive suggestions.  The fact is, anyone who desires high quality, accurate models should (and generally does) have the skills and willingness to find a fix for themselves rather than bundle up the product with an abusive comment for the importer.

My fix usually surrounds the use of Canopy cement which is what the Micro-Scale Crystal Clear is.  Another suggestion is good old PVA.  I use a tooth pick to apply and the water soluability will allow you to clean up if there is excess.  These are flexible adhesives.  So far, I've never had to re-fix any of my fixes.

Rick

This problem has been happening where etched walkways are glued to plastic bodies for years and it is now being banded as a manufacturing fault! As stated above it is simply the result of the cars being exposed to extreme temperature variations during shipment or storage and takes about 5 mins per car to fix. The person who comes up with an adhesive with enough grip and flexibility to stop this happening would make a fortune.

Cheers

Chris

I had the same problem with one of my cars, I emailed Tangent and they got back to me with instructions on how to fix, as well as offering to exhange the car if I chose not to fix it. I did the repairs myself, and Tangent will give me a discount on my next order. The problem occcurs due to climate changes during shipping. All cars are inspected at Tangent before shiping, but what happens is the etched metal expands due to humidity changes and pops off of the mount. I sliced a small section out of the walkway to allow the roofwalk to sit flat on the car before cementing in place.

-Trevor

As other posters have said, this roofwalk "buckle" is absolutely caused by the model's exposure to extreme cold temperature and/or dryness during shipping.  We inspect every model before we ship them to you, and none leave our distribution facility in Asheville NC with a roofwalk buckle.  We have designed around this issue with our more recent productions such as our PS4750 covered hopper, however our PS4740 roofwalks can have this issue with some buckling of the roofwalk due to it following the prototype's design.  While we have done a tremendous amount of work on the front end of our model production to avoid this problem, we have occasional reports of this. 

As people have already posted here, our products are not the only ones with this issue.  As a modeler, I too have a bunch of covered hoppers and f-units with popped etched parts.  We have performed alot of testing and destruction (of perfectly good models) to figure all of this out.  Sad to do, but we always need to know how to improve.

The fix is here: 
You can fix this issue with a #11 knife where you remove part of the roofwalk (you only remove the roofwalk from the bow point ONLY to the end of the car - not the entire roofwalk).  Once you remove the walk between the former buckle point and the end of the car, it will lay flat because the tension has been released.  You can then reglue the roofwalk to the supports starting where the buckle was.  You then glue toward the end of the car, using canopy cement or small dab of CA applied with a piece of wire or a paper clip "end."  Canopy cement (for RC planes and available in hobby shops, usually made by Pacer or Gap) is mildly flexible and is the best applicant for this application.  CA may discolor the paint slightly though so use it gingerly and apply it only to the top of the roofwalk supports (underneath the walk itself).  Some weights or something a little heavy work well to hold the roofwalk down during this process.  This process should take no longer than 5 minutes.  No cutting of the etched metal is required!

While this fix for this is extremely simple, we recognize that you all pay hard-earned money for your models.  We get it!  We are modelers too.  While you expect a perfect model every time, we simply cannot control the environment the model has been through, including perhaps multiple shipping events (from Tangent to you, or from Tangent to a hobby shop to you, or Tangent to a hobby shop to a train show via a cold trailer, etc).  But, we will take care of you.  We take care of our customers - contact us offline!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models

Thanks for all the suggestions by everyone, including Tangent. Sounds like an easy fix and I don't mind doing the repair. As most of you have said, it's not worth sending them back with all the hassle of shipping, along with the chance I'd end up with the same problem with new hoppers since I'm sure everyone is right in the fact that it is probably weather related because of the fluctuation in temperatures during shipment. Tangent did return my email this morning. I do appreciate their quick response and this problem will not keep me from buying their products in the future. They have great looking models!

Thanks for everyone's responses. Now it's time to head to the basement and get them fixed!

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/17 10:34 by KsPoker.

This problem was discovered when Plano Model Products sold etched running boards. The cause is that the thermal expansion coefficients of most plastics are larger than those of metals. Be aware that this trouble occurs in winter. If models were adhered in a warm room, metal boards buckle when they get cold the amount of larger shrinkage of plastic. Therefore, the measure is to bond the two in near the coldest environment where the model will be placed.  Originally, manufacturers must do the work in refrigerators. ;-)

In the Northern Hemisphere the repair is NOW! The point to be noted is to cool the entire model uniformly. I recommend Cemedine's "Super X" for the adhesive, is sold in Japan. Epoxy may be Okay. ACC has none of my experience. Mine that did this treatment have never caused the problem.
 



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/17 16:59 by BN7023.

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Regarding BN7023's post:

For all of the followers on this thread, the Southern PS4750s shown with roofwalk buckles are not Tangent Scale Models cars.  Our PS4750 covered hoppers do not have roofwalk buckle issues due to a different design.

Thank you,

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models