Passenger Trains > UP "bans" photography from Chicago area Metra Stations

A report on today's Trains Magazine newswire states that UP "will no longer allow photography of trains from Metra station platforms in the Chicago area". As mentioned later in the report, the Supreme Court has classified photographic freedom on the same level with free speech, so whether this can be enforced by UP remains to be seen. Furthermore, commuter service in the Chicago area is run by METRA which earlier tried to ban photography and later rescinded its order. Here is the article from Trains Newswire:

"August 16, 2006
CHICAGO - Union Pacific Railroad has announced that with the recent increase in security concerns across the United States, it will no longer allow photography of trains from Metra station platforms in the Chicago area. Metra is the region's commuter-train agency.

"We recognize that railroad fans can be our eyes and ears out there," said UP spokesman Mark Davis. "But we live in different times. The number one concern for Union Pacific is the safety of everyone. Right now, and since 9/11, security has been heightened and increased. This is part of that effort." Davis added that, "This stuff about UP not liking railfans is not true. But we have to be as safe and secure as we can."

Metra was pulled into the photography-rights controversy last year when two railroad fans were detained by Morton Grove, Ill., municipal police and Metra police while photographing trains from the public train-boarding platforms at town's Metra station. That route, the Milwaukee District North Line, is owned by Metra. Union Pacific owns the property on its three commuter routes, and UP employees operate the trains under contract to Metra.

After the glare of publicity enveloped the Motron Grove incident, Metra recanted its position and publicly reversed its stance, saying it would allow photography of trains from its stations.

Metra spokesman Tom Miller today told Trains News Wire that as long as people are in areas accessible to the public, are acting in a safe manner, and are willing to provide identification if asked by authorities, that Metra has no problem with them taking photos. "But as far as the UP policy, we have no comment on that," Miller said.

UP might be on shaky legal ground if it attempts to enforce its ban. Attorney Walter Zullig, who did legal work for New York's Metro North Commuter Railroad, today told Trains News Wire, "There is nothing in statute that prohibits photography from public areas. There is no federal law on this, and nothing from Homeland Security. The U.S. Supreme Court considers photography a part of free speech protected under the First Amendment."

In a column that will appear in the October 2006 issue of TRAINS Magazine, Zullig writes that research has not turned up any state law on the subject in existence anywhere. According to Zullig, railfans have the legal and constitutional right to photograph whatever they please from locations "open to the public," which would seem to include Metra and other passenger-train-boarding platforms.

Maryland's MTA rapid-transit and commuter-train system has a photo ban on MARC commuter trains, which run on CSX and Amtrak trackage, as well as the Baltimore subway and light-rail systems, but Zullig believes there is no legal basis for the ban and is attempting to get MTA to explain its legal basis for it.

Both the New York City Transit Agency, which operates the city's vast subway system, and New Jersey Transit, which operates commuter trains and bus and trolley lines throughout the Garden State, attempted to adopt photography bans but withdrew their proposals after a flood of negative comments and threatened lawuits on constitutional grounds.

Public financial support of transit and commuter facilities may or may not have any bearing on the legality of such bans. In the Union Pacific instance, UP, a private railroad, contracts with Metra, a public entity, to provide the commuter-train service, on three routes out of Chicago. Metra uses tax money to fund the service and maintain the station facilities, including the train-boarding platforms."

<Furthermore, commuter service in the Chicago area is run by METRA which earlier tried to ban photography and later rescinded its order. >

Commuter service on the UP and BNSF lines are run by those railroads (crews, dispatchers, maintenance, police) under contract for Metra, as opposed to the other lines which Metra operates themselves. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

this is BULLS**T.

What stUPid manager decided to issue THAT memo? Apparently missed Civics class in 8th grade.

Unlike the BNSF, which decided to ENLIST the help of their fellow CITIZENS, the UP has stuck their head in their you know what and decided to cower to the fear.

Can't wait till this one is rescinded, I'll be LOL.

Love how Metra is keeping an arms length away from UP on this one.

Sorry for the rant everyone, but the more I think about this, more astounded I am.

BNSF also operates the Sounder commuter train between Seattle and Tacoma. I can't imagine BNSF ever trying to ban photography of the Sounder or BNSF freights from Sounder platforms. I doubt they would try such a thing on their Metra routes either.

It doesn't surprise me that UP would try something like this however. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to issue photo permits for $500 a piece either...

benthere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNSF also operates the Sounder commuter train
> between Seattle and Tacoma. I can't imagine BNSF
> ever trying to ban photography of the Sounder or
> BNSF freights from Sounder platforms. I doubt
> they would try such a thing on their Metra routes
> either.


Actually, BNSF did restrict photography and excluded me from the platform when I tried to board a Sounder. A short email to Sound Transit quickly resolved that matter, and I have yet to be asked to put my camera away.

do what i did. after my run-in the U.P. manager of train operation in oakland i just stop taking photos of anything with the word UNION PACIFIC on it.

Just another in a series of mindless tactics from an UTERLY PATHETHIC company who can't get their sh*t together. If they would only spend half as much time on trying to move trains as they do stepping on people's toes, the rust wouldn't build up on all those parked trains.

Let us all see how much we can bash UP for all of the worlds problems.

I am confused here.

Union Pacific chooses as a business decision to operate their trains in full public view. How then can they impose restrictions of photo images taken from public property.

If UP, for propietary reasons, desires to keep their trains out of public view, there is nothing with possibly the exception building codes to prohibit the railroad from starting tomorrow to construct fully walled and roofed structural enclosures for their rail lines. Many sports teams put up visual barriers around their training facilities to attain such privacy.

Not only could UP enclose their entire rail system, but my guess is that they could compel on line customers to similarly block public sight access to industrial spurs etc.

Better yet, UP could relocate their entire system in a private underground tunnel. This would eliminate any risks of public view or photo images, and if the UP stockholders questioned the endeavor, UP management could simply waive the American Flag and explain that they are trying to help Homeland Security.

The next thing is that UP may try to ban watches and clocks from Amtrak stations on their system, for purposes of concealing their inability to move a passenger train down the tracks with any consideration to schedule discipline.

Sounds to me that could UP benefit their stockholders by first eliminating the jobs of idiots who propose such policies as the camera ban.

This is just plain bull. I don't care how paranoid you want to be banning photography is unconstitutional pure and simple. If someone would like to contest this case and take it to the Supreme Court please let me know. And I will do what I can do to help!

I suggest that a bunch of Chicago railfans organize, choose a day and time, and form a big photo line at one of the stations...

Like the NJT Photo Fisaco, all I can say is, "here we go again!"

dl-w1955 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A report on today's Trains Magazine newswire
> states that UP "will no longer allow photography
> of trains from Metra station platforms in the
> Chicago area". As mentioned later in the report,
> the Supreme Court has classified photographic
> freedom on the same level with free speech, so
> whether this can be enforced by UP remains to be
> seen. Furthermore, commuter service in the
> Chicago area is run by METRA which earlier tried
> to ban photography and later rescinded its order.
> Here is the article from Trains

Well I guess Union Pacific sould ban cell phones from their property, or is it O K to take photos with a camera type, cell phone, looking like your making a call. Total supidity from UP management. gtw1516


Newswire:
>
> "August 16, 2006
> CHICAGO - Union Pacific Railroad has announced
> that with the recent increase in security concerns
> across the United States, it will no longer allow
> photography of trains from Metra station platforms
> in the Chicago area. Metra is the region's
> commuter-train agency.
>
> "We recognize that railroad fans can be our eyes
> and ears out there," said UP spokesman Mark Davis.
> "But we live in different times. The number one
> concern for Union Pacific is the safety of
> everyone. Right now, and since 9/11, security has
> been heightened and increased. This is part of
> that effort." Davis added that, "This stuff about
> UP not liking railfans is not true. But we have to
> be as safe and secure as we can."
>
> Metra was pulled into the photography-rights
> controversy last year when two railroad fans were
> detained by Morton Grove, Ill., municipal police
> and Metra police while photographing trains from
> the public train-boarding platforms at town's
> Metra station. That route, the Milwaukee District
> North Line, is owned by Metra. Union Pacific owns
> the property on its three commuter routes, and UP
> employees operate the trains under contract to
> Metra.
>
> After the glare of publicity enveloped the Motron
> Grove incident, Metra recanted its position and
> publicly reversed its stance, saying it would
> allow photography of trains from its stations.
>
> Metra spokesman Tom Miller today told Trains News
> Wire that as long as people are in areas
> accessible to the public, are acting in a safe
> manner, and are willing to provide identification
> if asked by authorities, that Metra has no problem
> with them taking photos. "But as far as the UP
> policy, we have no comment on that," Miller said.
>
> UP might be on shaky legal ground if it attempts
> to enforce its ban. Attorney Walter Zullig, who
> did legal work for New York's Metro North Commuter
> Railroad, today told Trains News Wire, "There is
> nothing in statute that prohibits photography from
> public areas. There is no federal law on this, and
> nothing from Homeland Security. The U.S. Supreme
> Court considers photography a part of free speech
> protected under the First Amendment."
>
> In a column that will appear in the October 2006
> issue of TRAINS Magazine, Zullig writes that
> research has not turned up any state law on the
> subject in existence anywhere. According to
> Zullig, railfans have the legal and constitutional
> right to photograph whatever they please from
> locations "open to the public," which would seem
> to include Metra and other
> passenger-train-boarding platforms.
>
> Maryland's MTA rapid-transit and commuter-train
> system has a photo ban on MARC commuter trains,
> which run on CSX and Amtrak trackage, as well as
> the Baltimore subway and light-rail systems, but
> Zullig believes there is no legal basis for the
> ban and is attempting to get MTA to explain its
> legal basis for it.
>
> Both the New York City Transit Agency, which
> operates the city's vast subway system, and New
> Jersey Transit, which operates commuter trains and
> bus and trolley lines throughout the Garden State,
> attempted to adopt photography bans but withdrew
> their proposals after a flood of negative comments
> and threatened lawuits on constitutional grounds.
>
> Public financial support of transit and commuter
> facilities may or may not have any bearing on the
> legality of such bans. In the Union Pacific
> instance, UP, a private railroad, contracts with
> Metra, a public entity, to provide the
> commuter-train service, on three routes out of
> Chicago. Metra uses tax money to fund the service
> and maintain the station facilities, including the
> train-boarding platforms."

These are the same bunch of corporate idiots who have model train manufactuerers paying royalties to UP for their livery, as well as all predecessor lines.

Too many lawyers with nothing to do, including hacks from the Dick Cheney era.

Corporations like UP, given the climate of fear created by political opportunism , think they can get away with moves like this. Bill of Rights? They really don't care. Any chance that a photography ban would really stop any terrorists? Not very likely. With today's cell phones I suspect any photos any terrorists might want could be obtained without attracting any attention at all. What this is all about is power in your face and corporate paranoia. As has been said, the contrast between UP and BNSF is stunning.

"We recognize that railroad fans can be our eyes
> and ears out there," said UP spokesman Mark Davis.
> "But we live in different times."

Yea, times are different, alright.
Except now you need the extra eyes and ear of the railfans
more than before, not less!!!

What idiots. Can't event craft a memo with correct
logic to support their own position.
I think if UP really wants to be safe, they should just stop
running any trains at all. (I can hear the UP lawyers now,
saying "Hey, that's a good idea".)

Glad I live out in the country, where there are no fences
along the tracks, the crews wave when you take photos,
and you can even get an occasional (dare I say it) cab ride
without a clearance from Homeland Security.

As for you dear little hearts that can't handle the bashing
of the poor little UP..........maybe you should find a company
with some talent and some brains to support.....UP has
got it's head firmly up W's hind end.

And that's the Truthththththththththththththth.

This is not as unreasonable as some have made it sound. UP did not ban photography of trains. They just banned photography from Metra Platforms that they own. I believe they have a right to set ground rules on their property. This is no different than banning spitting or smoking or public urination on a platform. The platforms serve a public purpose and it is not photography.

I worked at a yard that allowed railfans to sign a wavier that had 2 pages worth of rules beyond the liability release for prospective fans to observe and then they were let onto the property to take photos. This doesn't seem much different. I just don't know how they will enforce it, other than ask you to leave if you can't follow the rules they set for their property. Confiscating cameras or erasing memory chips would be outside the law and obviously the only thing they could arrest you for is trespassing since there are no laws prohibiting photography.

I think the big hang up here is the reason they said they are making the rule, which is stUPid.

If I am taking the train why can't I take a photo of it before boarding?

It will be virtually impossible to enforce this rule,because of all the cell phone camera's.
How would any of the dead beats even know what you are doing with the cell phone. Could say you are making a call.

santafedan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I am taking the train why can't I take a photo
> of it before boarding?

I'm sure, Mr. Santa Fe, that so long as it does not interfere with the train's operation, if you want a photo of your party boarding or alighting, you can still take such.