Passenger Trains > How fast can Amtrak go?

How about it engineers. This dude wants to know how fast a passenger train can reasonably expect to go anywhere in the United States. Where is the fastest stretch of track? What are the speed limits on it? All other considerations aside, how fast can an engine pulling a modest train go? I know that weight probably has something to do with a theoretical top speed, or that is my guess at least. In Japan, I guess the average Shinkansen can do about 180 mph with no stretch of the imagination? If they can do it, why can't we?

P.S. Go to the International heading here at Trainorders.com and check out my link to Hakata Station. They are about seventeen hours ahead of us, so keep that in mind. Go there when they might be busy.

Federal law limits trains to 79 mph unless more advanced signal systems are in use. These exist in only a few places. Many stretches of have been removed because they are costly to maintain and only Amtrak trains were really making use of them.

At present the fastest trains in the USA are Amtrak's Acela trains on the Northeast Corridor between Boston, New York, and Washington. They are capable of 150 mph but...as Wikipedia explains:

The Acela achieves an average speed of 80 mph (129 km/h) between Washington and New York; highest speed is 150 mph (241 km/h) on two sections of track in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. There are also many miles of track, especially east of New Haven, that have been upgraded to allow maximum speeds in excess of 110 mph (177 km/h). South of New York, Acela Express service is limited to 135 mph (217 km/h), even though several stretches of track there are straight enough to allow 150 mph (241 km/h) speeds.

Electromotive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about it engineers. This dude wants to know
> how fast a passenger train can reasonably expect
> to go anywhere in the United States. Where is the
> fastest stretch of track? What are the speed
> limits on it? All other considerations aside, how
> fast can an engine pulling a modest train go? I
> know that weight probably has something to do with
> a theoretical top speed, or that is my guess at
> least. In Japan, I guess the average Shinkansen
> can do about 180 mph with no stretch of the
> imagination? If they can do it, why can't we?

HERE'S THE SIMPLE NO BS ANSWER AS TO WHY WE WON'T DO IT ...

1 LACK OF COMMITTMENT BY OUR GOVERNMENT

2 POLITICIANS FEEL THE NEED TO SPEND MONEY ELSEWHERE AS A PRIORITY

can't put it any plainer or more simple than that

Edit:

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Federal law limits trains to 79 mph unless more
> advanced signal systems are in use. These exist
> in only a few places. Many stretches of have been
> removed because they are costly to maintain and
> only Amtrak trains were really making use of
> them.
>
> At present the fastest trains in the USA are
> Amtrak's Acela trains on the Northeast Corridor
> between Boston, New York, and Washington. They
> are capable of 150 mph but...as Wikipedia
> explains:
>
> The Acela achieves an average speed of 80 mph (129
> km/h) between Washington and New York; highest
> speed is 150 mph (241 km/h) on two sections of
> track in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. There are
> also many miles of track, especially east of New
> Haven, that have been upgraded to allow maximum
> speeds in excess of 110 mph (177 km/h). South of
> New York, Acela Express service is limited to 135
> mph (217 km/h), even though several stretches of
> track there are straight enough to allow 150 mph
> (241 km/h) speeds.

EDIT: 150mph on 3 sections ...i just posted that info a cpl days ago on another thread ... heres the locations of the 150mph sections

per the timetable

MP 154.3 & MP 171.7...150mph tracks 1&2...Train Type "A"&"B"...Kingston Station--MP 158.1
MP 174.5 & MP 180.5...150mph tracks 1&2...Train Type "A"&"B"...Cranston----------MP 181.2
MP 194.5 & MP 205......150mph tracks 1&2...Train Type "A"&"B"...Mansfield----------MP 204



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/11 12:31 by Out_Of_Service.

I've seen references from time to time that the Acela equipment has been tested to 167 - 170 mph, but constant tension catenary would be necessary to hit those speeds on a regular basis in NJ for the 40 or so miles south of New Brunswick and elsewhere

I rode an Acela from Washington to New York a couple weeks ago. According to my GPS unit, the train traveled 222 miles in 2 hours and 30 minutes of moving time plus 12 minutes and 5 seconds of stopped time. That gives an average moving speed of 88.6 mi/h and an overall average (including stopped time) of 82.1 mi/h.

But GPS reception failed while in the tunnels in downtown Baltimore and Philadelphia, so if the calculation included the additional distance and time in those tunnels, at a speed I'd estimate as around 30 mi/h, that probably would bring the overall average with stops down to the 80 mi/h mentioned in an earlier post. (The 2:53 trip time and 226-mile distance shown in the timetable suggests another 11 minutes were spent traveling 4 miles in the tunnels. The timetabled 226 miles in 2:53 is an average of 78.4 mi/h.) As expected, maximum speed on the WAS-NYP segment was 135 mi/h.

Electromotive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about it engineers. This dude wants to know
> how fast a passenger train can reasonably expect
> to go anywhere in the United States. Where is the
> fastest stretch of track? What are the speed
> limits on it?

Here is the short answer:

ALL Amtrak Trains, except: Pacific Surfliner, Southwest Chief, Michigan Service, Empire Service, Lake Shore Limited, Maple Leaf, Ethan Allen and Adirondack (Between New York and Albany), Keystone Corridor, Pennsylvanian (Philadelphia-Harrisburg) and trains operating on Northeast Corridor between Washington DC and Boston:

79MPH

Any location where the Freight speed limit is 61MPH or above, is Capable of at least 90MPH for Passenger Trains, but is limited to 79MPH because of the Signal System.

Diesel Powered Trains are Limited to 110MPH, Track Class speed may be higher, but is limited by the propulsion system.

Speed may also be limited due to: Geographical Challenges, Political Limitations, FRA Track Class or other Permanent Speed Restrictions.

Pacific Surfliner:

90MPH operation in the following locations:

Santa Ana-Sorrento Valley

Exceptions:
Various Permanent speed restrictions, and speed may be limited to 79MPH when running on non ATS equipped Main Tracks.
All other locations 79MPH Max.


Amtrak Trains 3&4, Southwest Chief:

90MPH operation in the following locations:

Eastbound:
Daggett, Calif-Pisgah, Calif
Bagdad, Calif-West Cadiz, Calif (MP 646.1)
Getz, Ariz-Valentine, Ariz
Crookton, Ariz-Maine, Ariz
Darling, Ariz-Gallup, N Mex
Gonzales, N Mex-Anzac, N Mex (MP 85.9)
Marmon, N Mex-Dalies N Mex
East Sibley, Mo-C.A. Junction, Mo (Henrietta)
W.B. Junction, Mo (Carrollton)-Fort Madison, Iowa


Westbound:
Fort Madison, Iowa-W.B. Junction, Mo (Carrollton)
C.A. Junction, Mo (Henrietta)-East Sibley, Mo
Dalies, N Mex-Gonzales, N Mex
Gonzales N Mex-Winslow, Ariz
Maine, Ariz-Crookton, Ariz
Peach Springs, Ariz-Needles, Calif
Goffs, Calif-Bagdad, Calif
Pisgah, Calif-Daggett, Calif

Exceptions:
Various Permanent speed restrictions, and speed may be limited to 79MPH when running on non ATS equipped Main Tracks.
All other locations 79MPH Max.



Michigan Services:

95MPH (110 Future)

Niles, Mi-Kalamazoo, Mi

Exceptions:
Various Permanent speed restrictions.
All other locations 79MPH Max.

Empire Service including Lake Shore Limited and Adirondack:

New York, Ny-Albany, Ny:

90MPH

Exceptions:

Hoffmans-Schenectady

110MPH

Various Permanent speed restrictions.
All other locations 79MPH Max.


Keystone Corridor including Pennsylvanian

Philadelphia, Pa-Harrisburg, Pa:

110MPH

Various Permanent speed restrictions.

Northeast Corridor

Washington DC-New York:

Acela Express:

135MPH

All Other Trains (except Long Distance Trains consisting of speed restricted equipment)

Washington DC-New York

125MPH

Exceptions:

LD trains w/ speed restricted equipment:

110MPH

Various Permanent speed restrictions.

New York-New Haven:

90MPH

New Haven-Boston:

Acela Express

150MPH

All other Trains:

125MPH

Exceptions:

LD trains w/ speed restricted equipment:

110MPH

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Any Additions or Corrections welcome.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/11 17:02 by ats90mph.

Nice summary.

Another list interesting list would be where the speed USED to be above 79mph. Driving in Chicago today I chanced on two Amtrak Mil-Chi Hiawathas; it is incredible to think that they would have been going faster in 1935 than I saw them in 2011. (Though not necessarily on the stretch I saw them on.)

Excellent listing! Riga to Byron, NY at 110mph is news to me, I thought it was 79 in that area which is west of Rochester, NY.

ats90mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Northeast Corridor
>
> Washington DC-New York:
>
> Acela Express:
>
> 135MPH
>
> All Other Trains (except Long Distance Trains
> consisting of speed restricted equipment)
>
> 125MPH
>
> Exceptions:
>
> LD trains w/ speed restricted equipment:
>
> 110MPH
>
> Any Additions or Corrections welcome.


misinformation in need of correction

per the timetable NYP Line:

County & MP54---135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type "A"&"B"
MP54 & Ham------135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type "A"&"B"

with 3 curve restictions 130mph MP34 MP39 MP40.2 between the 2 135mph sections

per the timetable PW Line

Ragan & Bacon----135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type "A"&"B"

130mph curve restrictions at MP30 MP31 MP33 MP35 MP47 MP49 MP50
curve south of Davis
" at Iron
" north of Elkton
" south of Elkton

Bacon Int--------130mph 3 track only Train Type "A"&"B"

Bacon & Prince---130mph tracks 2&3 Train Type "A"&"B"

note:

Train Type "A"

HST's High Speed Trainsets(Acela) with tilt system "ACTIVE"

Train Type "B"

1:HST's with tilt system "DISABLED"

2:trains consisting exclusively of HHP-8,AEM-7,P40BH,P42BH or P32-BWH engines ,and Amfleet,Horizon,Captoliner Control Cars,Marc III control/coach cars or US DOT test car DOTX216

EDIT: i gave a tongue-n-cheek poke to Timz and he poked right back on info i didn't post so here's the omitted info ... top speed info for the motive power listed in TRAIN TYPE "B"

--------LITE---MU'd Lite---With Train
HH-P ----50------50-----------125
AEM-7-----"-------"------------"
P40BH-----"-------"-----------110
P40BH-----"-------"------------"
P32BH-----"-------"-----------100

all cars listed above in TRAIN TYPE "B" have top speeds of 125 so in essence the speed of track is correct but the speed limitations on the motive power and equipment in TRAIN TYPE "B" keep the trains below what the track speed in the timetable



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/11 06:32 by Out_Of_Service.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ats90mph Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Northeast Corridor
> >
> > Washington DC-New York:
> >
> > Acela Express:
> >
> > 135MPH
> >
> > All Other Trains (except Long Distance Trains
> > consisting of speed restricted equipment)
> >
> > 125MPH
> >
> > Exceptions:
> >
> > LD trains w/ speed restricted equipment:
> >
> > 110MPH
> >
> > Any Additions or Corrections welcome.
>
>
> misinformation in need of correction
>
> per the timetable NYP Line:
>
> County & MP54---135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> "A"&"B"
> MP54 & Ham------135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> "A"&"B"
>
> with 3 curve restictions 130mph MP34 MP39 MP40.2
> between the 2 135mph sections
>
> per the timetable PW Line
>
> Ragan & Bacon----135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> "A"&"B"
>
> 130mph curve restrictions at MP30 MP31 MP33 MP35
> MP47 MP49 MP50
> curve south of Davis
> " at Iron
> " north of Elkton
> " south of Elkton
>
> Bacon Int--------130mph 3 track only Train Type
> "A"&"B"
>
> Bacon & Prince---130mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> "A"&"B"
>
> note:
>
> Train Type "A"
>
> HST's High Speed Trainsets(Acela) with tilt system
> "ACTIVE"
>
> Train Type "B"
>
> 1:HST's with tilt system "DISABLED"
>
> 2:trains consisting exclusively of
> HHP-8,AEM-7,P40BH,P42BH or P32-BWH engines ,and
> Amfleet,Horizon,Captoliner Control Cars,Marc III
> control/coach cars or US DOT test car DOTX216


So they raised the speed limit for conventional trains to 135MPH? Where are the closest stations to the interlockings and MP's mentioned? The old PRR Interlocking Names were sometimes confusing for people w/o an employee timetable or other reference material to find their location.

Did they raise the speed on any of the speeds for "Type B" on the NY-Boston section above 125?


Thank you for the information

> So they raised the speed limit for conventional
> trains to 135MPH?

As I recall that limit has been 135 for
years-- but all the AEM7s and HHPs are
limited to 125.

Nice survey alright, and I'll always say the Southwest Chief is Amtrak's longest LD Train outside the NEC!

Amtrak288 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent listing! Riga to Byron, NY at 110mph is
> news to me, I thought it was 79 in that area which
> is west of Rochester, NY.


There's no 110 west of Rochester. There should be between Hoffmans and Schenectady, though.

ats90mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ats90mph Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Northeast Corridor
> > >
> > > Washington DC-New York:
> > >
> > > Acela Express:
> > >
> > > 135MPH
> > >
> > > All Other Trains (except Long Distance Trains
> > > consisting of speed restricted equipment)
> > >
> > > 125MPH
> > >
> > > Exceptions:
> > >
> > > LD trains w/ speed restricted equipment:
> > >
> > > 110MPH
> > >
> > > Any Additions or Corrections welcome.
> >
> >
> > misinformation in need of correction
> >
> > per the timetable NYP Line:
> >
> > County & MP54---135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> > "A"&"B"
> > MP54 & Ham------135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> > "A"&"B"
> >
> > with 3 curve restictions 130mph MP34 MP39
> MP40.2
> > between the 2 135mph sections
> >
> > per the timetable PW Line
> >
> > Ragan & Bacon----135mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> > "A"&"B"
> >
> > 130mph curve restrictions at MP30 MP31 MP33
> MP35
> > MP47 MP49 MP50
> > curve south of Davis
> > " at Iron
> > " north of Elkton
> > " south of Elkton
> >
> > Bacon Int--------130mph 3 track only Train Type
> > "A"&"B"
> >
> > Bacon & Prince---130mph tracks 2&3 Train Type
> > "A"&"B"
> >
> > note:
> >
> > Train Type "A"
> >
> > HST's High Speed Trainsets(Acela) with tilt
> system
> > "ACTIVE"
> >
> > Train Type "B"
> >
> > 1:HST's with tilt system "DISABLED"
> >
> > 2:trains consisting exclusively of
> > HHP-8,AEM-7,P40BH,P42BH or P32-BWH engines ,and
> > Amfleet,Horizon,Captoliner Control Cars,Marc
> III
> > control/coach cars or US DOT test car DOTX216
>
>
> So they raised the speed limit for conventional
> trains to 135MPH? Where are the closest stations
> to the interlockings and MP's mentioned? The old
> PRR Interlocking Names were sometimes confusing
> for people w/o an employee timetable or other
> reference material to find their location.


WILMINGTON-------------------MP 26.8 AMTRAK/SEPTA
CHURCHMAN'S CROSSING------MP 34.3 SEPTA
NEWARK-----------------------MP 38.9 "
PERRYVILLE--------------------MP 59.4 MARC
ABERDEEN---------------------MP 65.5 "
EDGEWOOD--------------------MP 75.1 "
MARTIN-------------------------MP 84.1 "
BALTIMORE---------------------MP 95.7 AMTRAK/MARC
WEST BALTIMORE--------------MP 98.5 MARC
HALETHORPE-------------------MP 103.0 "
BWI-----------------------------MP 106.3 AMTRAK/MARC
ODENTON----------------------MP 113.6 MARC
BOWIE STATE------------------MP 120.5 "
SEABROOK---------------------MP 124.7 "
NEW CARROLTON---------------MP 127.0 "
WASHINGTON UNION STATION-----------AMTRAK/MARC

>
> Did they raise the speed on any of the speeds for
> "Type B" on the NY-Boston section above 125?

> Thank you for the information

NO


timz2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > So they raised the speed limit for conventional
> > trains to 135MPH?
>
> As I recall that limit has been 135 for
> years-- but all the AEM7s and HHPs are
> limited to 125.

should i assume you made your post without reading the timetable speeds posted above or are you contradicting the employee timetable



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/11 16:56 by Out_Of_Service.

Very educational. Thank you.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There's no 110 west of Rochester. There should be
> between Hoffmans and Schenectady, though.

Yeah, that's probably what the original poster meant. The crossing gates all say "High Speed Trains" on them in that area!

There is also 110 mph for some distance between Albany and Hudson NY.

I am surprised to see that what is Tier I buff strength equipment is stated to be allowed to run at 135mph. I thought the limit for Tier I was 125mph.

Reminds me of going to San Diego on what was then the Amtrak San Diegan: After we crossed the legendary Trestles (near the surfing beach on the same name), the conductor got on the PA system and said "Everybody find a seat, we're cranking her back up to 90 [MPH] now."

A few days ago on this thread was discussion of the imminent extension of the high-speed portion of the Michigan corridor from Niles west to Porter, Indiana (presumably with numerous speed restrictions, including the drawbridge at Michigan City). The 110-mph operation is also supposed to be close to reality, but I've heard that too often before to say much before it actually occurs.

Carl Shaver
Lombard, IL