Passenger Trains > Why Metrolink leased BNSF locos are sitting idle.

Article in the Los Angeles Times today. Why Metrolink leased BNSF locos are sitting idle.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-metrolink-engines-20160501-story.html

Metal shavings shorting out signals?  Really???   What a goofy statement.

Once the freight locomotives started going into service, Metrolink officials said they encountered other problems that needed to be addressed.Inaccurate speedometers triggered the positive train control system unnecessarily, which slowed or stopped trains, resulting in delays for passengers. Trains equipped with the larger engines didn't always fit into sidings, they were slower than passenger trains and required more time at stations to load and unload passengers.In addition, people who live near Metrolink lines or rail yards have complained about loud horns, and the heavier freight locomotives, which have far more traction than passenger engines, can cause excessive track wear — the metal shavings from which signals can short out."I wish we had more in service, but we are making progress," Leahy said. "This was a bigger challenge than originally thought."

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

> Once the freight locomotives started going into
> service, Metrolink officials said they encountered
> other problems that needed to be
> addressed.Inaccurate speedometers triggered the
> positive train control system unnecessarily, which
> slowed or stopped trains, resulting in delays for
> passengers. Trains equipped with the larger
> engines didn't always fit into sidings, they were
> slower than passenger trains and required more
> time at stations to load and unload passengers.In
> addition, people who live near Metrolink lines or
> rail yards have complained about loud horns, and
> the heavier freight locomotives, which have far
> more traction than passenger engines, can cause
> excessive track wear — the metal shavings from
> which signals can short out."I wish we had more in
> service, but we are making progress," Leahy said.
> "This was a bigger challenge than originally
> thought."

Any excuse to blame anything or anyone but themselves.  

Time for us taxpayers to bounce these clowns out from the CEO down to the COO and then some.   

What a load of bunk.

Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate one.

"Too big for sidings"? Yeah, right.

What on earth do the locomotives have to do with how long it takes people to get on or off a standing train at a station?

The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/16 13:07 by Realist.

Ah, that Great American pastime---passin' the buck.

unreal .

RetireMe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Once the freight locomotives started going into
> > service, Metrolink officials said they
> encountered
> > other problems that needed to be
> > addressed.Inaccurate speedometers triggered the
> > positive train control system unnecessarily,
> which
> > slowed or stopped trains, resulting in delays
> for
> > passengers. Trains equipped with the larger
> > engines didn't always fit into sidings, they
> were
> > slower than passenger trains and required more
> > time at stations to load and unload
> passengers.In
> > addition, people who live near Metrolink lines
> or
> > rail yards have complained about loud horns,
> and
> > the heavier freight locomotives, which have far
> > more traction than passenger engines, can cause
> > excessive track wear — the metal shavings
> from
> > which signals can short out."I wish we had more
> in
> > service, but we are making progress," Leahy
> said.
> > "This was a bigger challenge than originally
> > thought."
>
> Any excuse to blame anything or anyone but
> themselves.  
>
> Time for us taxpayers to bounce these clowns out
> from the CEO down to the COO and then some.   

Do you really think their replacements will be any better? And the only taxpayers who are feeling this live in Los Angeles, Ventura, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino Counties.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a load of bunk.
>
> Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate
> one.

The locomotive speedometers are fine. It's the speedometer on the PTC that is erratic and will jump +\- 5mph at any given time. If you're running along at 70mph and the PTC jumps to 75 you go into penalty braking.

The engineers are forced to run at 64mph to avoid this. Apparently it is a software issue and they have no idea how to fix it.

> The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.

The metal shavings were found in LAUPT and were caused by the larger 6 axle locomotives traversing the 12mph crossovers and turnouts.
The shavings were getting in the switch points and causing a track occupancy to appear.

If I remember correctly the BNSF units are radial steer and lack a bolster. Not sure if this would cause more wear and tear on tight turnouts or not but that's what they are blaming it on.

Posted from iPhone

EMD-F125 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What a load of bunk.
> >
> > Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> > couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate
> > one.
>
> The locomotive speedometers are fine. It's the
> speedometer on the PTC that is erratic and will
> jump +\- 5mph at any given time. If you're running
> along at 70mph and the PTC jumps to 75 you go into
> penalty braking.
>
> The engineers are forced to run at 64mph to avoid
> this. Apparently it is a software issue and they
> have no idea how to fix it.
>
> > The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.
>
> The metal shavings were found in LAUPT and were
> caused by the larger 6 axle locomotives traversing
> the 12mph crossovers and turnouts.
> The shavings were getting in the switch points and
> causing a track occupancy to appear.
>
> If I remember correctly the BNSF units are radial
> steer and lack a bolster. Not sure if this would
> cause more wear and tear on tight turnouts or not
> but that's what they are blaming it on.
>
> Posted from iPhone


Actually, radial trucks should be much easier on turnouts than standard trucks. At any rate, a bit of flange grease in the tightest spots should help.

I suppose this issue never arose back when dozens of E and PA units both of which have 3-axle trucks with wheelbases at least as long as that on today's C trucks, were going in and out of the station daily.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a load of bunk.
>
> Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate
> one.
>
> "Too big for sidings"? Yeah, right.
>
> What on earth do the locomotives have to do with
> how long it takes people to get on or off a
> standing train at a station?
>
> The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.


Most of the problems with the story are due to the usual poor reporting & writing, aka "journalism", not statements coming out of Metrolink.

EMD-F125 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> The locomotive speedometers are fine. It's the
> speedometer on the PTC that is erratic and will
> jump +\- 5mph at any given time. If you're running
> along at 70mph and the PTC jumps to 75 you go into
> penalty braking.
>
> The engineers are forced to run at 64mph to avoid
> this. Apparently it is a software issue and they
> have no idea how to fix it.
>

Pretty much what I heard from one engineer.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a load of bunk.
>
> Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate
> one.
>
> "Too big for sidings"? Yeah, right.
>
> What on earth do the locomotives have to do with
> how long it takes people to get on or off a
> standing train at a station?
>
> The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.

Pure speculation on my part, but could it be that they mean too "long" for sidings? I don't know Metrolink at all, but are there any sidings that are designed to fit a standard train length and nothing more?

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What a load of bunk.
> >
> > Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> > couple of minutes at most to test and calibrate
> > one.
> >
> > "Too big for sidings"? Yeah, right.
> >
> > What on earth do the locomotives have to do
> with
> > how long it takes people to get on or off a
> > standing train at a station?
> >
> > The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.
>
> Pure speculation on my part, but could it be that
> they mean too "long" for sidings? I don't know
> Metrolink at all, but are there any sidings that
> are designed to fit a standard train length and
> nothing more?

The one on the San Bernardino Line in the center median of the I-10. IIRC it's about 10 cars long.

Staff is just telling telling the Metrolink Board, what it thinks they will be happy to hear.  The board would not unerstand a thing they are told.

Just getting rid of some staff could help, but not resolve the excuses with the Board members.

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Staff is just telling telling the Metrolink Board,
> what it thinks they will be happy to hear.  The
> board would not unerstand a thing they are told.
>
> Just getting rid of some staff could help, but not
> resolve the excuses with the Board members.

Is there a commuter advocate etc for the lines in question?  A person who speaks for the commuters and tells how things really are? Sometimes, the board needs to hear inconvenient truths before picking up their pay checks and heading for an early lunch and golf game...

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mundo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Staff is just telling telling the Metrolink
> Board,
> > what it thinks they will be happy to hear. 
> The
> > board would not unerstand a thing they are
> told.
> >
> > Just getting rid of some staff could help, but
> not
> > resolve the excuses with the Board members.
>
> Is there a commuter advocate etc for the lines in
> question?  A person who speaks for the commuters
> and tells how things really are? Sometimes, the
> board needs to hear inconvenient truths before
> picking up their pay checks and heading for an
> early lunch and golf game...

No passenger advocate that I know of.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mundo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Staff is just telling telling the Metrolink
> > Board,
> > > what it thinks they will be happy to hear. 
> > The
> > > board would not unerstand a thing they are
> > told.
> > >
> > > Just getting rid of some staff could help,
> but
> > not
> > > resolve the excuses with the Board members.
> >
> > Is there a commuter advocate etc for the lines
> in
> > question?  A person who speaks for the
> commuters
> > and tells how things really are? Sometimes, the
> > board needs to hear inconvenient truths before
> > picking up their pay checks and heading for an
> > early lunch and golf game...
>
> No passenger advocate that I know of.


There is no "Official Commuter Advocate" (would you really want there to be? Who would it be, and what/who would they represent? etc.), but anyone can speak at SCRRA board meetings. The Board welcomes public input (and it's the law).

You can write to board members.

You can write staff & advisory committee members.

Advocate on Metrolink......take another drink.   Metrolink says if you have a response, call our 800 number (which is contracted out and not in house) or fill out our service form.

Yes they can go to a board meeting, as covered above post, but why should the customer have to take time off to do so.  Then the chairman, thanks for you comments.  End of subject...next board item.

For the casual rider, its just forget Metrolink.  For the commuter, get in your auto if you do not like it.

Even a weekend Beach train today was bused, account failures.  A family trip to the beach or grand-ma's does not work will with a couple of hours on a typical transit bus.
Those passengers today are gone for future riders, unless they do not own an auto.

Even most of the board members do not ride the train for LA meetings.  They are driven, sometimes by a County Transportion staffer.  They should be required to the train, to see and hear.  Introduce themslevers to the Train crew, see what they have to say.  Inspect their boarding station.  I could go on and on with this subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/16 20:51 by mundo.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EMD-F125 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Realist Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What a load of bunk.
> > >
> > > Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes a
> > > couple of minutes at most to test and
> calibrate
> > > one.
> >
> > The locomotive speedometers are fine. It's the
> > speedometer on the PTC that is erratic and will
> > jump +\- 5mph at any given time. If you're
> running
> > along at 70mph and the PTC jumps to 75 you go
> into
> > penalty braking.
> >
> > The engineers are forced to run at 64mph to
> avoid
> > this. Apparently it is a software issue and
> they
> > have no idea how to fix it.
> >
> > > The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.
> >
> > The metal shavings were found in LAUPT and were
> > caused by the larger 6 axle locomotives
> traversing
> > the 12mph crossovers and turnouts.
> > The shavings were getting in the switch points
> and
> > causing a track occupancy to appear.
> >
> > If I remember correctly the BNSF units are
> radial
> > steer and lack a bolster. Not sure if this
> would
> > cause more wear and tear on tight turnouts or
> not
> > but that's what they are blaming it on.
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
>
> Actually, radial trucks should be much easier on
> turnouts than standard trucks. At any rate, a bit
> of flange grease in the tightest spots should
> help.
>
> I suppose this issue never arose back when dozens
> of E and PA units both of which have 3-axle trucks
> with wheelbases at least as long as that on
> today's C trucks, were going in and out of the
> station daily.

The metal shavings comment is just unbelievable! 
In addition to all of the 6 axle units mentioned, I wish to add the SP's 10 SDP45s, Amtrak's nearly 200 SDP40Fs that ran in and out of LAUPT and on the routes mentioned for YEARS!  Then we have to talk about the Santa Fe's F45s, their U28 and U30CGs (even though they didn't run in passenger service very long) and last but certainly not least, half of Amtrak's  25 P30-7CHs that ran for YEARS on the Sunset, and twice daily to Oxnard on the commuters for a while.

Now a question:  How many shavings did the fleets of four drive axle, eight axles total steam engines leave behind??

There is an old saying that it is better to sit still,  keep quiet, and be thought dumb, than to speak up and remove all doubt!  Will somebody please explain that to the reporter?
G

That entire plant was redesigned and those shorter switches will give you some flange and rail wear. It only takes a couple of shavings to bridge an IJ and knock down the track circuit within a switch. They were having problems before with 4 axle stuff. So the "metal shavings" part of this conversation is not bs. 

ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > EMD-F125 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Realist Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What a load of bunk.
> > > >
> > > > Speedometers are a maintenance issue; takes
> a
> > > > couple of minutes at most to test and
> > calibrate
> > > > one.
> > >
> > > The locomotive speedometers are fine. It's
> the
> > > speedometer on the PTC that is erratic and
> will
> > > jump +\- 5mph at any given time. If you're
> > running
> > > along at 70mph and the PTC jumps to 75 you go
> > into
> > > penalty braking.
> > >
> > > The engineers are forced to run at 64mph to
> > avoid
> > > this. Apparently it is a software issue and
> > they
> > > have no idea how to fix it.
> > >
> > > > The "metal shavings" stuff is just b.s.
> > >
> > > The metal shavings were found in LAUPT and
> were
> > > caused by the larger 6 axle locomotives
> > traversing
> > > the 12mph crossovers and turnouts.
> > > The shavings were getting in the switch
> points
> > and
> > > causing a track occupancy to appear.
> > >
> > > If I remember correctly the BNSF units are
> > radial
> > > steer and lack a bolster. Not sure if this
> > would
> > > cause more wear and tear on tight turnouts or
> > not
> > > but that's what they are blaming it on.
> > >
> > > Posted from iPhone
> >
> >
> > Actually, radial trucks should be much easier
> on
> > turnouts than standard trucks. At any rate, a
> bit
> > of flange grease in the tightest spots should
> > help.
> >
> > I suppose this issue never arose back when
> dozens
> > of E and PA units both of which have 3-axle
> trucks
> > with wheelbases at least as long as that on
> > today's C trucks, were going in and out of the
> > station daily.
>
> The metal shavings comment is just
> unbelievable! 
> In addition to all of the 6 axle units mentioned,
> I wish to add the SP's 10 SDP45s, Amtrak's nearly
> 200 SDP40Fs that ran in and out of LAUPT and on
> the routes mentioned for YEARS!  Then we have to
> talk about the Santa Fe's F45s, their U28 and
> U30CGs (even though they didn't run in passenger
> service very long) and last but certainly not
> least, half of Amtrak's  25 P30-7CHs that ran for
> YEARS on the Sunset, and twice daily to Oxnard on
> the commuters for a while.
>
> Now a question:  How many shavings did the fleets
> of four drive axle, eight axles total steam
> engines leave behind??
>
> There is an old saying that it is better to sit
> still,  keep quiet, and be thought dumb, than to
> speak up and remove all doubt!  Will somebody
> please explain that to the reporter?
> G

ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realist Wrote:
> > Actually, radial trucks should be much easier
> on
> > turnouts than standard trucks. At any rate, a
> bit
> > of flange grease in the tightest spots should
> > help.
> >
> > I suppose this issue never arose back when
> dozens
> > of E and PA units both of which have 3-axle
> trucks
> > with wheelbases at least as long as that on
> > today's C trucks, were going in and out of the
> > station daily.
>
> The metal shavings comment is just
> unbelievable! 
> In addition to all of the 6 axle units mentioned,
> I wish to add the SP's 10 SDP45s, Amtrak's nearly
> 200 SDP40Fs that ran in and out of LAUPT and on
> the routes mentioned for YEARS!  Then we have to
> talk about the Santa Fe's F45s, their U28 and
> U30CGs (even though they didn't run in passenger
> service very long) and last but certainly not
> least, half of Amtrak's  25 P30-7CHs that ran for
> YEARS on the Sunset, and twice daily to Oxnard on
> the commuters for a while.
>
> Now a question:  How many shavings did the fleets
> of four drive axle, eight axles total steam
> engines leave behind??
>
> There is an old saying that it is better to sit
> still,  keep quiet, and be thought dumb, than to
> speak up and remove all doubt!  Will somebody
> please explain that to the reporter?
> G

So are you saying the tracks and switches leading to LAUPT are exactly the same as they were 40, 50 or even 60 years ago?