Passenger Trains > Stupid heat restriction...and it's not even really hot!

lately sometimes well make that most of the time it takes me a while to get the rusted cogs in my brain to start turning and now that i think about it there should be a 2 tier heat speed restriction for paasenger and freight relative to the 2 tier freight and passenger max TT speeds ... so i'm back to i don't know what hell is going on up there ...

There are separate heat restrictions for overhead electric zones. They can wreak havoc on higher speed operations.

I would expect the electric side teams impose those limits.

Posted from Android

cchan006 Wrote:
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> NineHourLimit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is the reason railroads don't hire
> > foamers.   They believe they have more common
> > sense than seasoned professionals.
>
> Information Age has accelerated the arrogance and
> impatience of amateurs. I'm sure you realize the
> problem is way bigger than just with foamers. 


Chefs and restaurant owners have been afflicted with know it all, entitled customers, too. Fortunately the have big knives..

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> There are separate heat restrictions for overhead
> electric zones. They can wreak havoc on higher
> speed operations.
>
> I would expect the electric side teams impose
> those limits.
>
> Posted from Android

it would be too confusing to have seperate wire and track retrictions ... it's just one blanket speed restrictions that covers for both but with the old non tension catenary structure and possible sagging wire from expansion the 80mph heat restriction on the NEC Is more for the wire than the track ... Amtrak on the NEC has pretty much fine tuned their rail heat adjustment ... i think all will agree that restrictions due to heat affected track anomalies have been just about void ...

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Yet the speed restriction got subsequently got
> lifted, if the story is true. Go figure.

Coincidence?

All these calculations make me laugh. Heat warnings are based on ambient temperatures.

1976 Wrote:
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> All these calculations make me laugh. Heat
> warnings are based on ambient temperatures.

and has been stated those differ according to the average neutral temps in each region ... the temp for setting speed retrictions are left up to each individual railroad ... each railroasd can establish ANY temp, within reason, they want to restrict trains on their railroad ... for example 3 different railroads in a certain region (say the mid-atlantic region) can have 3 different heat temps for speed restrictions ... 

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are separate heat restrictions for
> overhead
> > electric zones. They can wreak havoc on higher
> > speed operations.
> >
> > I would expect the electric side teams impose
> > those limits.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> it would be too confusing to have seperate wire
> and track retrictions ... it's just one blanket
> speed restrictions that covers for both but with
> the old non tension catenary structure and
> possible sagging wire from expansion the 80mph
> heat restriction on the NEC Is more for the wire
> than the track ... Amtrak on the NEC has pretty
> much fine tuned their rail heat adjustment ... i
> think all will agree that restrictions due to heat
> affected track anomalies have been just about void
> ...

Yes and Thanks. I know the sagging wire problem has been an issue along the NEC in NJ over the years.  Is it also an issue on the former Reading Company lines?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There are separate heat restrictions for
> > overhead
> > > electric zones. They can wreak havoc on
> higher
> > > speed operations.
> > >
> > > I would expect the electric side teams impose
> > > those limits.
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
> >
> > it would be too confusing to have seperate wire
> > and track retrictions ... it's just one blanket
> > speed restrictions that covers for both but
> with
> > the old non tension catenary structure and
> > possible sagging wire from expansion the 80mph
> > heat restriction on the NEC Is more for the
> wire
> > than the track ... Amtrak on the NEC has pretty
> > much fine tuned their rail heat adjustment ...
> i
> > think all will agree that restrictions due to
> heat
> > affected track anomalies have been just about
> void
> > ...
>
> Yes and Thanks. I know the sagging wire problem
> has been an issue along the NEC in NJ over the
> years.  Is it also an issue on the former Reading
> Company lines?


yeah Paul the wire restriction covers the track restriction in the overlap 

Heat kinks, sun kinks, "thermal buckle" a AVI clip of one that I experienced, fortunately we got slowed down and no injuries or derailment   Doug

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I love it!  Three pages of discussion about heat restrictions, conductors, and dispatchers, all due to a highly fictional story.  There's no way a dispatcher is going to take down a heat restriction because a conductor used "strong language" with him, all instigated by a passenger with a smart phone telling the conductor that the temperature was cooler.  Talk about the inmates running the asylum!  If that restriction had been lifted shortly after the radio conversation, it was purely coincidental.  I've dispatched for three different railroads and the methods were all the same.  MOW gives the dispatcher the heat restriction, and only MOW can remove it.  The dispatcher has no real idea what the actual temperature is, and you cannot depend on temperature readings from a wayside detector; more often than not, they're at least five degrees off.  I kind of wonder if we're not being trolled by the OP with such a fantastic story.  Any railroader would spot it as being bogus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/16 21:17 by WrongMain.

So what say you DJL...Is this story really just a steaming pile of......??? You've been called out enough across these three pages that I'm sure you'd like to defend your credibility, yes?

hoggerdoug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat kinks, sun kinks, "thermal buckle" a AVI clip
> of one that I experienced, fortunately we got
> slowed down and no injuries or derailment   Doug

you got lucky and exercised good safety procedures ... 

the person who starts an app that can detect track incontinuity where train crews can monitor track movement ahead and under the train will be a billionaire ... heat kinks are like electricity ... they find he path of least resistance ... recenlty worked track not compacted or stabilized, ineffective ballast sections, anchors not conformed to the FRA standard pattern especially at fixed structures such as switches/ crossings, bridges, hwy crossings and rail joints where anchors are to be boxed (both sides oon each tie on both rails)  for 200ft in both direcions and he biggest culprit rail not neural state that wasn't heat adjusted ... standard pattern is boxed every other tie ...

WrongMain Wrote:
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> I love it!  Three pages of discussion about heat
> restrictions, conductors, and dispatchers, all due
> to a highly fictional story.  There's no way a
> dispatcher is going to take down a heat
> restriction because a conductor used "strong
> language" with him, all instigated by a passenger
> with a smart phone telling the conductor that the
> temperature was cooler.  Talk about the inmates
> running the asylum!  

I've was tempted to say the same thing, but couldn't bear the thought of a young foamer crying himself to sleep.   Seemed kinder to let him believe he was that important.

On second thought......nahhhh.

NineHourLimit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WrongMain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I love it!  Three pages of discussion about
> heat
> > restrictions, conductors, and dispatchers, all
> due
> > to a highly fictional story.  There's no way a
> > dispatcher is going to take down a heat
> > restriction because a conductor used "strong
> > language" with him, all instigated by a
> passenger
> > with a smart phone telling the conductor that
> the
> > temperature was cooler.  Talk about the
> inmates
> > running the asylum!  
>
> I've was tempted to say the same thing, but
> couldn't bear the thought of a young foamer crying
> himself to sleep.   Seemed kinder to let him
> believe he was that important.
>
> On second thought......nahhhh.


HA !!! but some might find the info interesting and informative ... some of you guys brought up some good gpoints to share ... 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/16 17:05 by Out_Of_Service.

Foamer trying to learn something here:

Aren't Heat Restrictions kinda like Blue Flag protection? Only the person (or craft) who placed can release it?

So, am I at least semi-right?

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Foamer trying to learn something here:
>
> Aren't Heat Restrictions kinda like Blue Flag
> protection? Only the person (or craft) who placed
> can release it?
>
> So, am I at least semi-right?

it's not as restrictive as blue flag protection ... the temp for heat restriction isn't set in stone as blue flag protection ... speed for heat restrictions can vary as can the temp for when to apply the restriction ... besides a STOP SIGNAL INDICATION blue flag protection IS THE MOST restriction protectioln on track ... let me ammend that ...  a Stop signal can be passed with peroisssion whereas a blue flag CAN'T ... SO BLUE FLAG PROTECTION IS THE MOST RESTRICTIVE INDICATION ON TRACK ...  it's set in stone so to speak ... DO NOT PASS A BLUE FLAG !!! DO NOT REMOVE A BLUE FLAG UNLESS YOUR IN THE CRAFT THAT APPLIED IT AND HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SO DO  ... only the craft that applied the blue flag can remove it ... at one time it use to the person who applied it until that backfired when the person could not be found so it was ammended to the craft ... heat restrictions can be applied by anybody designated to do so but it always falls to the engineering dept (a manager on Amtrak) to have order for who to go to with when it will be applied and released .,,,.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/16 20:32 by Out_Of_Service.

Me thinks you all  have been had ?

kingman Wrote:
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> Me thinks you all  have been had ?


would a guy with these credentials LIE ??? ... from his TO page

Name:David Justin Lynch

Web Site:www.saintceciliacatholiccommunity.orgIn

interests:Train travel, particularly the West; Computers; Law; Classical Music; dogs; Anglican/Catholic high liturgy.

WrongMain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dispatcher has no real idea what the actual
> temperature is, and you cannot depend on
> temperature readings from a wayside detector; more
> often than not, they're at least five degrees off.

Oh really? That's funny because when a detector on BNSF gives a high reading, the dispatcher is called and they check the ambient temperature for that location...