International Railroad Discussion > France to kill sleepers, most overnight trains

The country's Ministry of Transportation announced yesterday that it will end overnight train service to and from Paris, The Guardian reported. The French government, which oversees the national rail operator SNCF, has withdrawn financial support from sleeper routes and invited bids from competitors. If no proposal is received and accepted by July 1, all overnight service, with the exception of three domestic routes—from Paris to Briancon, Rodez, and Latour de Carol—will be scrapped. For the French government, the overnight trains aren't worth the cost to keep them running. “The economics are stacked against night trains—once you add [competition from] budget airlines and hefty track access fees,” Mark Smith, founder of the train travel blog The Man in Seat Sixty-one told The Guardian. -Conde Nast Traveler



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/16 08:52 by GenePoon.

Much the same in Germany.
Interesting the UK has ordered four new trainsets for the Anglo Scottish sleeper service. 
The London Penzance Night Riviera also soldiers on after having survived the knife a few years ago.
Both lose money, but survive. At least for now.

How exactly a budget airline is going to get you someplace from late evening to early morning in a bed is beyond me. Much travel time is saved by not wasting a night in some expensive hotel, then flying in the morning with no connection time available for the onward flight home. Both overnight trains I've taken this year have been packed. And the equipment does not appear to be old and worn down as has been the suggested reason for cancellation. The last I rode two weeks ago, a Polish sleeper in fact appeared to be either relatively new or completely re-built. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the equipment does not appear to be
> old and worn down as has been the suggested reason
> for cancellation. The last I rode two weeks ago, a
> Polish sleeper in fact appeared to be either
> relatively new or completely re-built. 

As far as I know, Japan is the only country that gave the "aging equipment" as the official reason for cancelling the sleeper trains, and it seems legitimate. I don't remember the Europeans giving that reason when they started to cancel sleeper trains in earnest few years ago. I recall that the TO discussions were centered on whether travellers were forced to use HSR ("socialist policy"). Maybe the European civic planners stole Japan's reason for cancellation, to prevent unrest!

In Japan, anyway, the very popular Sunrise Sleeper EMUs were renovated recently, a signal to the customers that JR West and JR Central (the companies responsbile for operating the service) are serious about continuing the service.

I agree with you that ending the day at a train station, moving while sleeping, then starting the next day hundreds of miles away is a very productive use of time for travelling, but apparently, most people must not share the same sentiments anymore. Besides the budget hotels and airlines, don't forget the addictive behavior introduced by the Internet. Shopping for hotels and "cheap" airfares online might have become the new national pastime, even in Europe.

I love overnight sleeper trains but when traveling on a new-to-me route I am always torn between the sleeper option and the desire to see new territory.  The last European sleeper I used was between Krakow and Prague.  The daytime option required two changes and that tipped the balance for the sleeper and it was a nice trip.  I still feel there is demand for these services even if a relatively select market.  It could also be the case that someone taking the sleeper one way and returning on a day service may just elect to fly absent the sleeper train option.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And the equipment does not appear to be
> > old and worn down as has been the suggested
> reason
> > for cancellation. The last I rode two weeks ago,
> a
> > Polish sleeper in fact appeared to be either
> > relatively new or completely re-built. 
>
> As far as I know, Japan is the only country that
> gave the "aging equipment" as the official reason
> for cancelling the sleeper trains, and it seems
> legitimate. I don't remember the Europeans giving
> that reason when they started to cancel sleeper
> trains in earnest few years ago. I recall that the
> TO discussions were centered on whether travellers
> were forced to use HSR ("socialist policy"). Maybe
> the European civic planners stole Japan's reason
> for cancellation, to prevent unrest!
>
> In Japan, anyway, the very popular Sunrise
> Sleeper EMUs were renovated recently, a signal to
> the customers that JR West and JR Central (the
> companies responsbile for operating the service)
> are serious about continuing the service.
>
> I agree with you that ending the day at a train
> station, moving while sleeping, then starting the
> next day hundreds of miles away is a very
> productive use of time for travelling, but
> apparently, most people must not share the same
> sentiments anymore. Besides the budget hotels and
> airlines, don't forget the addictive behavior
> introduced by the Internet. Shopping for hotels
> and "cheap" airfares online might have become the
> new national pastime, even in Europe.

I think you'll find that one of DB's reasons for abandoning City Nightline services is the lack of revenue to fund the replacement of aged equipment.

OeBB, Austrian Federal Railways, is interested in picking up the EuroNight trains connecting Germany with Austria. Also DB has said it will work with other Railways to provide sleeper services as long as they are not financially involved.