Railfan Technology > VX-170 and programing narrow band

My laptop, where I had my data files for my VX-170 and VX-150 has apparently died.

I have to believe that I can get the programing out of both radios with the RT systems software.

my real question here is
1. adding the narrowband freqs to both radios if possible would it be better to add the new freqs at the end of the existing programming or actually "install" them in their actual locations

And

2. Would it advantageous to do it now?

Thanks

CB

CountryBoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My laptop, where I had my data files for my VX-170
> and VX-150 has apparently died.
>
> I have to believe that I can get the programing
> out of both radios with the RT systems software.
>
> my real question here is
> 1. adding the narrowband freqs to both radios if
> possible would it be better to add the new freqs
> at the end of the existing programming or actually
> "install" them in their actual locations
>
> And
>
> 2. Would it advantageous to do it now?
>
> Thanks
>
> CB

I'd recommend having the "splinter" (narrowband) frequencies in positions
where the channel number was identical with the memory channel.

For example, channel 126 would be in memory 126.

Be sure to select "HALF DEV" for all the memories to invoke the
narrowband function.

You should be able to "read" the information in your radio to a new computer.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

K3HX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CountryBoy Wrote:
>
> I'd recommend having the "splinter" (narrowband)
> frequencies in positions
> where the channel number was identical with the
> memory channel.
>
> For example, channel 126 would be in memory 126.
>
>
> Be sure to select "HALF DEV" for all the memories
> to invoke the
> narrowband function.
>
> You should be able to "read" the information in
> your radio to a new computer.
>
> Be Well,
>
> Tim Colbert K3HX

Thanks

I've got the data from the radio to the computer

I am using the RT systems programmer, Now the question is

If I am reading the RR band plan correctly the "steps" (RT systems lingo) are 12.5 khz separated from the adjacent freq

What might the difference be between the "12.5 steps" and the "half dev" or is there any comparison???

Are there any other settings that might be appropriate?

Thanks again

CB

CountryBoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks
>
> I've got the data from the radio to the computer
>
> I am using the RT systems programmer, Now the
> question is
>
> If I am reading the RR band plan correctly the
> "steps" (RT systems lingo) are 12.5 khz separated
> from the adjacent freq
>
> What might the difference be between the "12.5
> steps" and the "half dev" or is there any
> comparison???
>
> Are there any other settings that might be
> appropriate?
>
> Thanks again
>
> CB


The HALF-DEV function compensates for the narrower deviation
of narrowband transmission by boosting the receiver audio level.

Other settings:

Tone Mode: NONE

Skip: OFF

I'd set the STEP at 12.5 kHz but enter each frequency one digit at a
time.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

Without changing a thing on my VX150 I have noticed no change in reception after narrowband broadcast started. Much ado about nothing IMO.

K3HX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CountryBoy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
>
> The HALF-DEV function compensates for the narrower
> deviation
> of narrowband transmission by boosting the
> receiver audio level.
>
> Other settings:
>
> Tone Mode: NONE
>
> Skip: OFF
>
> I'd set the STEP at 12.5 kHz but enter each
> frequency one digit at a
> time.
>
> Be Well,
>
> Tim Colbert K3HX


GREAT Thanks

1. If I'm reading the Freq chart correctly there is no channel 1 and then nothing from 98 thru 103. Any rhyme or reason known for not including these channels???

2.I see there are trunked blocks on the chart, What are these and why???

Again Thanks for your help

CB

CountryBoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> GREAT Thanks
>
> 1. If I'm reading the Freq chart correctly there
> is no channel 1 and then nothing from 98 thru 103.
> Any rhyme or reason known for not including these
> channels???
>
> 2.I see there are trunked blocks on the chart,
> What are these and why???
>
> Again Thanks for your help
>
> CB

I'd recommend the frequency chart shown here:

google: AAR frequencies narrowband

Select the 4th listing from the top: "Railroads scanner frequencies......."

Note that when the chart comes up, there is no channel 001 and that 002-006 are for Canadian use.

Suggestion:

Print out the chart and enter the AAR frequencies in memories that correspond to the channel number.

For example, AAR channel 050 (160.860 MHz)into memory 50 and AAR channel 150 (160.86750 MHz)into
memory 150.

I'd suggest entering each frequency into the RT Systems program one at a time.

CORRECTION: There is no need to set the STEP function at 12.5 kHz when the RT Systems program is used.
If you have STEP set at 12.5 kHz, there is no need to change it.

I cannot speak to trunking of channels as it may vary by railroad and location.

Suggested bank allocation:

Bank 01: AAR channels 07-97 (02-97 if you wish Canadian coverage)
Bank 10: AAR channels 07-97, 107-196

In this way, one click of the tuning knob will allow you to select between a restricted and unrestricted
frequency range.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

K3HX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CountryBoy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> I'd recommend the frequency chart shown here:
>
> google: AAR frequencies narrowband
>
> Select the 4th listing from the top: "Railroads
> scanner frequencies......."
>
> Note that when the chart comes up, there is no
> channel 001 and that 002-006 are for Canadian
> use.
>
> Suggestion:
>
> Print out the chart and enter the AAR frequencies
> in memories that correspond to the channel
> number.
>
> For example, AAR channel 050 (160.860 MHz)into
> memory 50 and AAR channel 150 (160.86750 MHz)into
>
> memory 150.
>
> I'd suggest entering each frequency into the RT
> Systems program one at a time.
>
> CORRECTION: There is no need to set the STEP
> function at 12.5 kHz when the RT Systems program
> is used.
> If you have STEP set at 12.5 kHz, there is no need
> to change it.
>
> I cannot speak to trunking of channels as it may
> vary by railroad and location.
>
> Suggested bank allocation:
>
> Bank 01: AAR channels 07-97 (02-97 if you wish
> Canadian coverage)
> Bank 10: AAR channels 07-97, 107-196
>
> In this way, one click of the tuning knob will
> allow you to select between a restricted and
> unrestricted
> frequency range.
>
> Be Well,
>
> Tim Colbert K3HX

I have tried a couple different times today to start programming the narrow band freqs into the RT Systems software. I keep getting an error that reads

"This radio does not allow frequencies in 2.5 khz steps. frequencies must be divisible by 5000 or 12500"

HELP

CB

> I have tried a couple different times today to
> start programming the narrow band freqs into the
> RT Systems software. I keep getting an error that
> reads
>
> "This radio does not allow frequencies in 2.5 khz
> steps. frequencies must be divisible by 5000 or
> 12500"
>
> HELP
>
> CB

I do not own a VX-170 so I am going off of the message you are getting from your software. The radio needs to be able to do 2.5Khz freq steps (not to be confused with 2.5Khz DEVIATION/12.5KHz channel bandwidth) and a lot of radios will not do that. Even a lot of the older narrow band compliant LMR radios will not do 2.5KHz steps. The Motorola Astro Spectra is one that had early versions (pre 1997 IIRC) and shortly after Motorola redesigned the VHF RF board for 2.5 steps they put "2.5 KHZ" on the S/N labels. Most LMR radios sold after 2002 or there about will do 2.5KHz steps, I can't say on the ham radios, but all of the higher end scanners will. Some radio require a firmware update to allow the 2.5 steps.

Unfortunately if you do want to monitor a new splinter channel that you can't program in (you will be able to get some of the new channels in) you will need to get another receiver. The NXDN units are coming down in price, but there are a lot of other LMR radios out there on the used market now that will perform great at a low cost. Of course with an LMR radio you will have to get it programmed, but that is not that hard to find someone who can do it, PM me if you have any questions.




Jim

+-CountryBoy Wrote:

> I have tried a couple different times today to
> start programming the narrow band freqs into the
> RT Systems software. I keep getting an error that
> reads
>
> "This radio does not allow frequencies in 2.5 khz
> steps. frequencies must be divisible by 5000 or
> 12500"
>
> HELP
>
> CB

CB,

X4449 is correct.

Although the software will allow you to type in the frequencies, the radio
rejects them.

My error stems from being able to put in an oddball "splinter" frequency
for ham radio purposes and, by pure circumstance, have it be accepted by the radio.

I do not have the RR "splinter" frequencies in my radio, using the memories for
ham radio purposes.

I regret that I've wasted your time.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

Here's the deal: With most all amatuer transcievers, "narrow band" really isn't narrow band on the receive side. Programming a channel as "narrow-band" allows the radio to transmit in a narrower frequency width, but--other than increasing the audio as noted above--it doesn't narrow-band the receive frequency. So, if and when the railroads start using the "splinter" frequencies, those will bleed over on the receive for the existing frequencies. Now, in many places, it may be years before the railroads start using those splinter frequencies, so it may not be much of a problem. The only current models of amateur radio that I know of that are truly narrow-band capable radios on receive are the Kenwood TM-281A mobile radio and the Kenwood TH-K20A handheld. I suspect that most of the next generation of amateur radios will be narrow-band capable on receive, not because of the amatuer bands (which are not mandated to be narrow-banded), but because so many amateur radio users utilize the extended receiver capabilities of the radios to listen to signals outside of the amateur bands, as well.

As noted many times before, all of these radios, narrow band or not, become useless for railfanning once the railroads go digital. Then, one will have to have the Icom or Kenwood commercial radios with NXDN capability.

The Wouxun KG-UV6X does true narrow-band receive and transmit. It will let you program frequencies in 2.5 steps. I bought one earlier this year and it's been a great radio so far. I think I paid around $160.00 for mine shipped from HAM Radio Outlet. Here's a link to a page with some information on it:
http://www.powerwerx.com/wouxun-radios/kg-uv6x-dual-band-vhf-uhf-commercial.html

The only downsides to the radio is the scan rate is slow compared to a scanner but not really a big deal when you are going through 100 channels or so. The other is that you can't lock a frequency out without hooking the radio up to your computer and using the (free) programming software.

John

The only downsides to the radio is the scan rate
> is slow compared to a scanner but not really a big
> deal when you are going through 100 channels or
> so. The other is that you can't lock a frequency
> out without hooking the radio up to your computer
> and using the (free) programming software.
>
> John

John,

I'm glad you are getting good use out of the unit, but for the above reasons the Wouxuns are completely useless as a scanner. The scan speed is reported as about 6 channels per seconds (that is over 30 seconds to make ONE run thru all of the VHF voice channels). And can you imaging a scanner that you can not add and delete a channel from the scan list without a computer?

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/12 15:45 by X4449.

Jim, I agree that it has some serious shortcomings depending on how you want to use the radio. I don't use scan function on it much because there are normally only a few areas I'm in for rail-fanning and in those areas there is only one frequency in use. So I normally just set the radio there and leave it there. I sometimes do run the scan on it at home to listen to police / fire but we are in a rural area with only a few EMS frequencies. With the AAR frequencies, EMS and a couple of HAM repeaters I've only got about 105 total frequencies in it so even with the slow scan rate (I just checked mine and it's about 8 channels a second) it still doesn't take long to go through all of them. I was looking for a HAM radio I could also use to listen to railroad frequencies on and I liked the fact that this one would let me use it for a true narrow-band receive and program frequencies in the 2.5 khz steps if I needed to do it. The receiver on it is also very sensitive compared to most scanners. One good feature with this radio IF you have the proper licensing to use it is that you can legally program the radio to transmit on FM frequencies outside the HAM bands. I used to volunteer on a museum railroad and I wish I had this radio to use then. The radios they for us were in poor condition and had bad batteries. Some members bought their own radios but at that time I couldn't find anything under $500.00 which was too much to spend on a volunteer job, with this one I could have had one to use for HAM, rail-fanning and working on our museum railroad for under $200.00.

I forgot to mention that you can add or delete channels but unfortunately it's not near as simple as using a lockout feature like most scanners have. To do it in the field you'd have to manually key in a new frequency and the same to delete one or replace it with another frequency. I do miss having the ability to temporarily lock a channel out like I can do on my dedicated scanners.

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/12 21:34 by JS_IN_KY.