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Eastern Railroad Discussion > Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsboro,NJ


Date: 11/30/12 05:34
Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsboro,NJ
Author: Out_Of_Service

i started my own thread on this because i thought the heading left out the most defining part of the derailment ... around 7:30am the famous A-Frame bridge in Paulsboro,NJ which has been the site of photos in a lot of Conrail books and Railpace and R&R magazine has collapsed under Conrail train WPCA-11 about 10-20 cars from the headend of the normally 80-100 car train which was running from Camden to Deepwater and is the feeder train for the line ... the train is heavy in chemically laded traffic ... reports on the local Fox news is that vinyl Chloride is leaking into the Mantua Creek and into the air ... the line is single tracked and now isolated from inbound and outbound traffic. units trains of coal and ethanol also use line on regular basis about once or twice or week ... latest reports on Fox are that some people are getting sick. the neighbohood is just south of the bridge

here's the Fox story

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/12 05:53 by Out_Of_Service.



Date: 11/30/12 05:39
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: OCtrainguy

I heard this story on the radio, NJ 101.5, while driving into work this morning. As soon as they said the location and mentioned tanker cars, I knew it was the CA11. Wow.

http://nj1015.com/paulsboro-train-derailment-bridge-collapse-possible-chemical-spill/

Reports of a fog already existing this morning and being a result of the derailment were both made into the radio station as they provided more information on the story.



Date: 11/30/12 05:52
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

OCtrainguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard this story on the radio, NJ 101.5, while
> driving into work this morning. As soon as they
> said the location and mentioned tanker cars, I
> knew it was the CA11. Wow.
>
> http://nj1015.com/paulsboro-train-derailment-brid
> ge-collapse-possible-chemical-spill/
>
> Reports of a fog already existing this morning and
> being a result of the derailment were both made
> into the radio station as they provided more
> information on the story.

there was normal fog over the area prior to the derailment ... the fog has been dissipating as the morning passes



Date: 11/30/12 06:04
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: sharris

Do we know for sure that the bridge collapsed under the train, or is it speculation? Couldn't a derailment of cars just prior to entering the bridge, such as at the joints on the moveable portion, cause the derailment that makes it appear to have collapsed? Saying a bridge collapsed implies negligence or disrepair and might not be the best thing to do at this point.


SH



Date: 11/30/12 06:14
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

sharris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do we know for sure that the bridge collapsed
> under the train, or is it speculation? Couldn't a
> derailment of cars just prior to entering the
> bridge, such as at the joints on the moveable
> portion, cause the derailment that makes it appear
> to have collapsed? Saying a bridge collapsed
> implies negligence or disrepair and might not be
> the best thing to do at this point.
>
>
> SH

i just reported what was on the news but further visual at least to me looking at the video after posting post thread it seems to me as you said that the train possibly derailed and took out the bridge ... which i would have to wonder if the bridge mechanism malfunctioned which is purely speculation on my part ... either way the bridge is toast ...

video just shown from the west side of the bridge shows the north end of the movable bridge over a bridge pier about a foot below the north bridge approach ... train was traveling southbound



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/12 15:05 by Out_Of_Service.



Date: 11/30/12 06:24
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: csxwilsmere

Didn't a similar derailment happen in the same spot a few years ago?



Date: 11/30/12 06:38
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: cjvrr

From the NJ.com website;

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012/11/train_derailment_prompts_evacu.html

I will say if the photos on that site really show the fog from the chemicals, that photographer was WAY to close!



Date: 11/30/12 06:42
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

cjvrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the NJ.com website;
>
> http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012
> /11/train_derailment_prompts_evacu.html
>
> I will say if the photos on that site really show
> the fog from the chemicals, that photographer was
> WAY to close!


fog was present prior to the derailment from the cold air over the water altho Vinyl Chloride does give off a dense fog when in contact with the atmosphere ... whatever it was it quickly dissipated



Date: 11/30/12 07:08
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: n1ck1sb3ast

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this train run by Conrail Shared Assets (CSAO)? Conrail still would be the correct term I believe. They have work trucks that I have seen in Morrisville with the Conrail logo on the side.



Date: 11/30/12 07:09
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: 710guy

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The AOL news bite said "calls to Conrail weren't
> returned". Surprised they're still in the phone
> book. LOL


Not only that, but the AOL HuffPost story had a European tank train as it's picture. Obviously whoever put this story together knows nothing about today's railroads.



Date: 11/30/12 07:29
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: toledopatch

n1ck1sb3ast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this
> train run by Conrail Shared Assets (CSAO)? Conrail
> still would be the correct term I believe. They
> have work trucks that I have seen in Morrisville
> with the Conrail logo on the side.

Yes, the track and train involved are Conrail Shared Assets. Whether they have their own PR department is not something I've had to inquire about.



Date: 11/30/12 07:42
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: BaltoJoey

csxwilsmere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't a similar derailment happen in the same
> spot a few years ago?

In the NJ.Com article it mentions that 16 cars went in the drink back in 2009.



Date: 11/30/12 07:46
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n1ck1sb3ast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this
> > train run by Conrail Shared Assets (CSAO)?
> Conrail
> > still would be the correct term I believe. They
> > have work trucks that I have seen in
> Morrisville
> > with the Conrail logo on the side.
>
> Yes, the track and train involved are Conrail
> Shared Assets. Whether they have their own PR
> department is not something I've had to inquire
> about.

Conrail Shared Assets CSAO is the company and a Conrail rep David Enright i believe his name was did do a news bite on Foxphilly but wasn't too forthcoming with information

BaltoJoey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> csxwilsmere Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Didn't a similar derailment happen in the same
> > spot a few years ago?
>
> In the NJ.Com article it mentions that 16 cars
> went in the drink back in 2009.

train was a NS506 coal train



Date: 11/30/12 07:56
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Lackawanna484

I've seen both Norfolk Southern and CSX labeled trucks and high rails on shared assets territory. I guessed that each line contributed equipment (engines, trucks, etc) in proportion to its ownership %.

Don't the assigned employees who were in the Conrail split continue to retain their NS, CSX etc seniority and rights? I thought there was a discussion a while back about how shared assets "new post 1999" employees have different rights than "old, Conrail 1999 and earlier" hires.



Date: 11/30/12 08:33
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen both Norfolk Southern and CSX labeled
> trucks and high rails on shared assets territory.
> I guessed that each line contributed equipment
> (engines, trucks, etc) in proportion to its
> ownership %.
>
> Don't the assigned employees who were in the
> Conrail split continue to retain their NS, CSX etc
> seniority and rights? I thought there was a
> discussion a while back about how shared assets
> "new post 1999" employees have different rights
> than "old, Conrail 1999 and earlier" hires.

true ... former prior rights Conrail employees prior to the split were afforded NY Dock secion 6 protection which gives them guarantees for 6 years after a line/company sale ... employees hired post split fall under new Conrail guidelines and contracts

heres CSAO train WPCA-05 the normal yard runner out of Camden back hauling 68 cars off of the 84 cars from CA-11 back to Pavonia

Photo #1 shows the train passing the former PRSL train station in Gloucester City,NJ that was just recently fixed and reopened after a fire last year

Photo #2 shows the train consist of the chemically laded hauler

Photo #3 shows the last car of the back haul that was cut from the derailed cars on the bridge in Paulsboro ... it was part of a cut of Vinyl chloride tank cars destined for Occidental formerly BF Goodrich in Pedricktown,NJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/12 11:53 by Out_Of_Service.








Date: 11/30/12 15:00
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: LV95032

Correct - news reporters are saying collapse but as alway can't rely on the news for accuracy of reporting. At the noon one of the official clarified it may have been a derailment that caused the damage to the bridge. NTSB will investigate.

sharris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do we know for sure that the bridge collapsed
> under the train, or is it speculation? Couldn't a
> derailment of cars just prior to entering the
> bridge, such as at the joints on the moveable
> portion, cause the derailment that makes it appear
> to have collapsed? Saying a bridge collapsed
> implies negligence or disrepair and might not be
> the best thing to do at this point.
>
>
> SH



Date: 11/30/12 23:24
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: railwaybaron

It would be a shame if this unique style of bridge is not restored. Are there any other railroad A-frame swing bridges still in existence?



Date: 12/01/12 06:17
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Out_Of_Service

railwaybaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be a shame if this unique style of bridge
> is not restored. Are there any other railroad
> A-frame swing bridges still in existence?


i've been informed today by someone who's been a pretty reliable source of information that after further inspection the bridge did not fail and altho the A-Frame is heavily damaged the bridge is going to be restored to service ... it's on the historical registry but this line also needs a quick fix since Dupont Occidental PBF refining the former Monsanto plant and the SMS industrial park all depend on daily service and are located south of the damaged bridge ... haz mat crews spent most of the night spreading foam on the cars to keep the cars somewhat temperature controlled since freezing can destabilize the vinyl chloride



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/12 06:44 by Out_Of_Service.



Date: 12/01/12 07:22
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: BCHellman

Does anyone have a picture of the bridge before it collapsed for the benefit of those on the Left Coast?

The news reports are correct in reporting that the bridge collapsed as evidence from the photos. Whether it was the result of a structural failure, derailment or sabotage has yet to be determined.



Date: 12/01/12 18:44
Re: Famous A-Frame Bridge Collapes Under Train Paulsbor
Author: Toller

http://news.yahoo.com/signal-problems-preceded-nj-train-derailment-180333202.html


PAULSBORO, N.J. (AP) — A signal may have malfunctioned on a southern New Jersey bridge where a train derailed, causing a hazardous chemical to spew into the air and leading to health problems, an evacuation, tricky cleanup decisions and broader questions about the condition of railway infrastructure.

No serious injuries were reported in the Friday morning accident. But the U.S. Coast Guard said Saturday night that the evacuation of 12 city blocks near the Mantua Creek site would remain in effect as a precaution. Teams also were monitoring the air quality and collecting water samples, the Coast Guard said.

National Transportation Safety Board chairman Deborah Hersman said the crew on the train told investigators that when they approached the Mantua Creek bridge before 7 a.m. Friday, the signal light was red, telling them not to cross. She said the crew found it unusual to get a red light at that hour of the day.

They used a radio signal to try to change the signal to green, but it did not work, Hersman said. She said the conductor got off the train and inspected the aging bridge. When it appeared to be OK, she said, the engineer called for — and received — permission from a dispatcher to go through the red light and cross the bridge.

-more-




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