Western Railroad Discussion > DPU Qualified Engineer on monster trains

I've noticed references to "DPU Qualified Engineers" from time to time. I'm assuming this means the engineer has taken courses / experience on running a train with road power distributed in at least two places on a train, and has been checked out by an expert.

Are there specific aspects of running a DPU train that differ from a usual train, or a train where you have a manned helper set cut in? I'd guess the DPU engineer is managing slack action on his own, keeping an eye on the air in both sets of the train, making sure you keep the train together as you go over the top of a grade, and keep it under control, etc. That assumes he can be communicating different commands to the helper (keep pushing up that side of the hill) while you're preparing to go into dynamics on the downside of the hill in the lead unit.

Thanks for any info

Not too much to it once you've run one. The linking and delinking is the hardest part. Of course, when you have comm loss, it can be a little tricky. Nothing like the rear end pushing you when you want them to be slowing you down.

Some railroads you get a two page handout of instructions about the various tests and linking proceedures. Notes on how to go to set out and recovery and a 50 mile check ride with a road foreman and you are qualified.

fbe Wrote:
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> Some railroads you get a two page handout of
> instructions about the various tests and linking
> proceedures. Notes on how to go to set out and
> recovery and a 50 mile check ride with a road
> foreman and you are qualified.


Hmmm, some of you guys get all that!!! The hardest thing about running a DPU train is how well you know your territory.. They are the nicest handling trains to run, I really like them in the winter cause the air charges so much faster, nice to have on 2.2 mountain grade with a 15,000 soda ash or grain train!!

BNSFhogger Wrote:
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> Not too much to it once you've run one. The
> linking and delinking is the hardest part. Of
> course, when you have comm loss, it can be a
> little tricky. Nothing like the rear end pushing
> you when you want them to be slowing you down.

The remotes should drop out as soon as you set a bit of air. At least they are SUPPOSED to drop out when they are in comm loss and the air is set.

It's like push - pull, but on a grand scale :-)

Set air when comm is lost and watch DPU put you into emergency. Planning ahead and knowing your territory are the keys to running them. When I go into a long tunnel or location where I know that I will be out of comm I set the DPU to a setting that I can live with till I get it back. With UP building the monster trains that we get I find I run with the fence up a lot more. I never got any classroom or handouts. Picked it up while firing from engineers who also got no formal training. Best Engineer that I fired for told me to run them like I was sitting on them, he had worked manned helpers for a long time.

No, when in "COMM LOSS" the DP units will drop to "idle" with an air brake application. Release the brakes while in "COMM LOSS" and you'll go into emergency. The only way to avoid going into emergency when in "COMM LOSS" and the brakes are set is to increase the brake pipe reduction by at least 5 psi and then you can release the brakes. However, the DP units will basically be boxcars (they won't do anything) until you "normalize" them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/09 14:56 by Railbaron.

You are both correct. On BNSF DPU a brake application when there is a comm loss results in remote unit going to idle. On UP it works as stated above. I have to say that I prefer the BNSF version.

KC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/09 15:34 by KingCoal.

Thanks for all the helpful info.

And by the way, during set-up of the remote units make sure that windows are closed and
latched.

I was a DPU instructor many years ago and have forgotten quite a lot about the operation of DPU equipment. While instructing, we used the "Harris box" namned after the company that the UP used to supply the equipment for DPU service. Harris also supplied the equipment for the SP back in the 1970's. This box sat on top of the control stand to the left of the desk top. Now the Harris box, I believe, has been removed from most, if not all, of the locomotives as only the older units capable of DPU operation used this box. Now, everything is internal and the engineer operates the DPU power from his display screen. I'd be lost now as I'm not familiar with the newer system at all.

As for qualification of engineers on DPU trains, a long time ago, the UP told it's engineers to run with the "Fence" down. This way the DPU power would respond to whatever throttle position the engineer was using on the head end. With the fence up, the DPU power could be run separate and apart from the head end consist just as if there was a crew on the DPU power. So, an engineer had to be the road engineer and the helper engineer at the same time. With the older guys that was okay but most, if not all, of the newer guys had not a clue as to how to run a helper consist as they had never even been on one. I assume this is one of the reasons why the UP had the engineer run with the fence down. I normally ran with the fence up when on a grade and had it down when on (almost) flat territory.

As a little side note, when one of the UP officers asked me to become a DPU instructor, along with four other engineers, he told me that this was something new we were going to try out on SP property. I kind of chuckled at him and told him the SP was using Locotrol, which was an early version of DPU, back in the 1970's. He didn't know what to say then as I think that kind of took the wind out of his sails.

JDE

The deal with the brakes setting when you loose the comm, I don't know that I'd like that too much, sounds like the BNSF method makes more sense with just dropping the load.

How did the first DPU Qualified Enginemen and RFEs...become qualified? Who gave them their check rides??

At one time the UP had DPU trainers and on most districts was requiring at least
three full round trips with the trainer and running in DPU mode to be qualified. Also
there was some classroom time plus the normal amount of published materialie
checklists, manuals, etc.

happened a few years back above donner lake. the term 'the big hole' took on a new meaning with derailed cars visible from I-80 after coming through the shed after the rear units didn't receive the head ends communication.

Steamjocky Wrote:
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> (snip)
>
> As for qualification of engineers on DPU trains, a
> long time ago, the UP told it's engineers to run
> with the "Fence" down. This way the DPU power
> would respond to whatever throttle position the
> engineer was using on the head end. With the
> fence up, the DPU power could be run separate and
> apart from the head end consist just as if there
> was a crew on the DPU power. So, an engineer had
> to be the road engineer and the helper engineer at
> the same time. With the older guys that was okay
> but most, if not all, of the newer guys had not a
> clue as to how to run a helper consist as they had
> never even been on one. I assume this is one of
> the reasons why the UP had the engineer run with
> the fence down. I normally ran with the fence up
> when on a grade and had it down when on (almost)
> flat territory.
>
>

Thanks for that insight. It sounds like you have to be your own engineer and your own helper engineer with the fence up, and the power operating independently of each other. As you note, you want to have everything under control on a grade, with balanced slack, etc

Supt wrote:
--------------
> Set air when comm is lost and watch DPU put you into emergency. …

Railbaron (me) wrote:
-------------------------
> No, when in "COMM LOSS" the DP units will drop to "idle" with an air brake application. …

KingCoal wrote:
------------------
> You are both correct. …


Unless there has been a recent and major change in UP’s software, the simple act of setting the air does NOT cause an emergency brake application when in “Comm Loss”. Both UP and BNSF are the same in that respect: set the air in “Comm Loss” and the DP units simply throttle down to idle. The reason for this is so the DP units don’t continue to shove the train if the engineer is trying to stop for something.

Now on the UP (I can’t speak for BNSF), if the engineer wants to move the train when in “Comm Loss” he has to increase the reduction by at least an additional 5 psi before releasing the brakes. This will signal the DP units the release is not an unintended release and will allow the train to be moved without the DP units placing the train into emergency. However, the DP units will not load until they are “normalized” again, which cannot be done until communication is re-established. Of course if you’re on a grade this “Comm Loss Throttle-down” might doom the train to being stalled until an engineer is placed on the DP units and they’re operated in “conventional” mode (manned helper).

One thing that can get engineers in trouble, and this leads to the concept that setting the air in a “Comm Loss” will result in an emergency application, is that often engineers will set the air, the DP units will drop their load, and the reaction is to release the brakes to get the train to where the engineer wants it because it starts to “squat” on the engineer. This will cause the emergency application because the DP units wouldn’t have sensed the additional 5 psi reduction to let them know the release is intentional.

Steamjocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While instructing, we used the "Harris
> box" namned after the company that the UP used to
> supply the equipment for DPU service. Harris also
> supplied the equipment for the SP back in the
> 1970's. This box sat on top of the control stand
> to the left of the desk top. Now the Harris box,
> I believe, has been removed from most, if not all,
> of the locomotives as only the older units capable

THe Harris Box existed on UP much longer than I think it needed to. And the last batch or two of them, they said "GE/Harris" on them. I always wondered why UP kept using them long after BNSF had quit - only one batch of BNSF Dash-9s had them (the 900-1000 series) before they switched to IDP. (Integrated Distributed Power, on the main computer screens) But UP didn't switch to IDP until a few years after BNSF did. Makes me think they had bought a contract for so many Harris Boxes which they were locked into. I actually like the Harris Box, it works good. It's still in place on all the UP C44AC units they came new on - from UP 5700-5980(or is it 5890) and the UP 6430-7297, and the former SP units that were DPU capable, most of them now in the UP 6250-6400 series have them too.

I never meant to imply that the DPU would go into emergency by design when air is set and comm is lost. It just happens to go this way with the junk we have on the UP especially the SD9043's, the 5800's were also good for this