Western Railroad Discussion > Railroads Miss Out

The Drucker Institute has put out their annual list of the 250 best managed US companies from a sample of 846 public companies.  UPS ranked 97 and FedEx ranked 122. None of the railroads made the cut.

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots

And nobody except the BOD’s are surprised.

Posted from iPhone

Ok so now what?  Know there is quite a bit of bias depending on which style of rankings used some are very subjective and in the long run dont mean very much due to that fact. 

How long back has a railroad been in that list?  Is there a bias against railroads?

That's no big deal. PSR & 3 mile-long trains will save the day!!! Right?

;^)

I think you have to look up the report and look at the 5 criterion and try to judge how railroads fit into those.  Top 7 are tech.

What ever we think of railroads you have to admit it is a tough business.

Bob

 

Wasn't there a list a couple years ago that said UP was the worst large company in America to work for?

Yep, there sure was.

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And nobody except the BOD’s are surprised.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Which railroads' BODs are surprised?  Why would they be surprised?
 

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you have to look up the report and look at
> the 5 criterion and try to judge how railroads fit
> into those.  Top 7 are tech.
>

Didn't Norfolk Southern say they were a Tech Company who happens to run a railroad.......






 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/21 16:33 by AmHog.

CSX at one point was one of the best tech employers to work for, of course since it had nothing to do with
running trains.

Out 

             The most interesting about surveys such as this is that the worst offenders NEVER clean up their act because they DO NOT CARE. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/21 13:58 by dcfbalcoS1.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>              The most interesting about
> surveys such as this is that the worst offenders
> NEVER clean up their act because they DO NOT
> CARE. 


As long as they can continue to make money by doing what they're doing right now they're not going to change.

Who/what is the Drucker Institute?  I've never heard of them.  Has anybody else?  

sf1010 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who/what is the Drucker Institute?  I've never
> heard of them.  Has anybody else?  

Founded by Peter Drucker, an economist and business management specialist specializing in, as Drucker defined it, “doing the right things well.”.

In the 80s, while BN management was reading every new management book being sold at the checkount counter of stores (including One Minute Manager!), I read all of his books. He was the Real Deal.

TAW

AmHog Wrote:
-------------------------------------
> Didn't Norfolk Southern say they were a Tech
> Company who happens to run a railroad.......
>

Lol....yeah....and they are ranked #2 on the list of WORST companies.

Posted from Android

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drknow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And nobody except the BOD’s are surprised.
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> Which railroads' BODs are surprised?  Why would
> they be surprised?
>  

When copious amounts of excrement are spewed to cover up a multitude of sins, nothing but flowers are expected to grow.

Wall Street tells everyone to buy RR stock all the while the industry circles the drain…

Several years ago I was at a railroad seminar and Charles Marshall, Retired ex Conrail Senior VP and G&W President / Vice Chairman  was a speaker.

What he told the audience of railroad management in attendance was that the truckers were eating the railroads lunch and the railroads didn't even know it.
Actually he was very direct with it " They are eating your lunch and you don't even know it, you think you are doing great things but you are not." He presented stats and background to back that up. Let's just say it didn't go over too well and afterwards I heard many execs and managers telling each other what a dinosaur he was and how he just didn't understand the industry anymore. Others seemed to have taken it more personal as a slight and were grumping about him. 

My take was he was trying to give a wake up call and it was a message that should at least have been reflected upon to see if there was validity and look at where things were and where it was or could go. I believe he and his speech were forgotten before the next break was over. 

As a consultant dealing with engineering issues at one time, I attended many seminars related to rail transportation and logistics and had opportunities to try and assist customers and short lines to develop alternatives to highway transport or enhance existing rail business. It was always a struggle to deal with the marketing and industrial development folks at Class 1's. Sometimes critical calls and emails were not answered for weeks, if ever. Rates quoted would not work or the whole package of transit time, rates and switching service would not be feasible to invest the needed capital to move ahead. It was a fight and sometimes we were not talking onesy, twosey cars but major blocks or unit trains. 

There was also the changing management structure and philosophy of marketing and business development. We do want to chase carload freight, we don't want to chase carload freight, and the rearranging of the whole sales and marketing teams and structures every year or so. You would start to talk to someone, then silence.... they restructured and now you have to find the new person and no one seems to know who it is.  One engineer will approve a design and then someone else comes in and unapproves it and back to square one. Service frequency is worked out, then it changes and will not accomodate the new business. It is really hard for a customer to put forth time and  $$$ for capital expenditures in such a volatile and uncertain scenario. Most development takes time; time to make the logistics deals, customer and freight development plans, infrastructure design and planning, contracts, and financing. Many times working with the Class 1's was simply an excercise in frustration in trying to bring them business. And it was understood that they needed to make a return and all ..... no one was looking for charity. But when big dollars were being put forth and further big captial expenditures being considered and feasibility of designs and patterns a little  more response and partnering would have been nice.  Sometimes things failed simply on design engineering. A design would be submitted using the Class 1's design and engineering standards and submitted for review or approval and you would simply get a "NO"...... Well ok, what doesn't work ?  Sometimes we never got an answer, sometimes it was weeks or months and there were times the customer just said we need to make a decision and the first one is we are not doing this by rail.

Just my experience. Working with short lines was way better but then too they were hostage and encumbered by what the Class 1 wanted to do or not do.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/21 06:46 by train1275.

What train1275 has just written should be posted verbatim in every newspaper, magazine, on line news etc. in this country. Every BOD and executive committee of the Class Ones should be put on stage in front of a stadium filled with shippers and be read this and then have to answer the crowd.

I have said for years that the Class Ones seem to have been taken over by a Cabal from the trucking industry as the actions by management seems to be aimed at getting rid of revenue and pissing off customers.

Regards.

Posted from iPhone

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several years ago I was at a railroad seminar and
> Charles Marshall, Retired ex Conrail Senior VP and
> G&W President / Vice Chairman  was a speaker.
>
> What he told the audience of railroad management
> in attendance was that the truckers were eating
> the railroads lunch and the railroads didn't even
> know it.
> Actually he was very direct with it " They are
> eating your lunch and you don't even know it, you
> think you are doing great things but you are not."
> He presented stats and background to back that up.
> Let's just say it didn't go over too well and
> afterwards I heard many execs and managers telling
> each other what a dinosaur he was and how he just
> didn't understand the industry anymore. Others
> seemed to have taken it more personal as a slight
> and were grumping about him. 
>
> My take was he was trying to give a wake up call
> and it was a message that should at least have
> been reflected upon to see if there was validity
> and look at where things were and where it was or
> could go. I believe he and his speech were
> forgotten before the next break was over. 
>
> As a consultant dealing with engineering issues at
> one time, I attended many seminars related to rail
> transportation and logistics and had opportunities
> to try and assist customers and short lines to
> develop alternatives to highway transport or
> enhance existing rail business. It was always a
> struggle to deal with the marketing and industrial
> development folks at Class 1's. Sometimes critical
> calls and emails were not answered for weeks, if
> ever. Rates quoted would not work or the whole
> package of transit time, rates and switching
> service would not be feasible to invest the needed
> capital to move ahead. It was a fight and
> sometimes we were not talking onesy, twosey cars
> but major blocks or unit trains. 
>
> There was also the changing management structure
> and philosophy of marketing and business
> development. We do want to chase carload freight,
> we don't want to chase carload freight, and the
> rearranging of the whole sales and marketing teams
> and structures every year or so. You would start
> to talk to someone, then silence.... they
> restructured and now you have to find the new
> person and no one seems to know who it is.  One
> engineer will approve a design and then someone
> else comes in and unapproves it and back to square
> one. Service frequency is worked out, then it
> changes and will not accomodate the new business.
> It is really hard for a customer to put forth time
> and  $$$ for capital expenditures in such a
> volatile and uncertain scenario. Most development
> takes time; time to make the logistics deals,
> customer and freight development plans,
> infrastructure design and planning, contracts, and
> financing. Many times working with the Class 1's
> was simply an excercise in frustration in trying
> to bring them business. And it was understood that
> they needed to make a return and all ..... no one
> was looking for charity. But when big dollars were
> being put forth and further big captial
> expenditures being considered and feasibility of
> designs and patterns a little  more response and
> partnering would have been nice.  Sometimes
> things failed simply on design engineering. A
> design would be submitted using the Class 1's
> design and engineering standards and submitted for
> review or approval and you would simply get a
> "NO"...... Well ok, what doesn't work ? 
> Sometimes we never got an answer, sometimes it was
> weeks or months and there were times the customer
> just said we need to make a decision and the first
> one is we are not doing this by rail.
>
> Just my experience. Working with short lines was
> way better but then too they were hostage and
> encumbered by what the Class 1 wanted to do or not
> do.
>
>  

Many good points.  I always laugh at the "Highway Lobby/Cabal" comments like the rail industry is a victim of some Evil Empire.  The highway lobby is large because it comprises communities that need roads, motorest and industry/shippers long before you get to the construction/engineering types.  The Fortune 500 I worked for lobbied for highways as a mater being able to produce and ship goods - period!  No emotional ties to highways or rail - just the need to get things produced and in the hands of the customer.

I had a meeting with a plant manager once.  We were going over his raw material moves and he asked how many days it took to move a carload of raw material from a supplier in the west to his plant in the northeast.  I said the railroads quote 14 days.  "So I can figure 14 days?"  I said well no...sometimes it takes as little as 9 days and as long as 31.  He said "your kidding me, YOU can't manage them better than that?!!  Right then and there I thought how many transportation guys are going to put their carrier on the line for a railroad?

So we maintained extra cars to prevent a plant outage of material.  This cost money for every extra car (as $800 per month per car) and leased track in the local rail yard.  We didn't need to pay anything for the alternative - the truckers trailer.  Then on top of this, they treated empties as a low priority move because...well they are empty.  Yet the delay's in getting cars back to the suppliers resulted in extra cars.  It adds up and greatly ate into the savings that could be achieved by using rail - a flawed delivery method.  We would have never put up with a conveyor in the plant that ran at various speeds from hour to hour, day to day and yet the railroads think this is fine!

One time I was having a discussion about this very problem with CSX.  They said that a customer said to them "Fed Ex can tell me down to the hour when they can make a delivery and do it in 24-30 hours".  CSX's response was "yeah but do you want to pay $10 per lb."?  I said you are missing the point.  It is not the speed of delivery with rail - yes you get a service level that is related to the price.  What is completely unacceptable is the complete lack of consistency.

Train1275 is completely correct.  Making matters even worse is railroads don't even understand what the customers want to achieve.  Marketing types that "understand rail" are the carriers worst enemy.  Understanding the customers or even how truckers function would be a huge improvement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/21 10:54 by NYSWSD70M.